Problems outputting hdv to dvcam on sony Z-7.

Hello Everyone!

we have edited an hdv trailer on final cut pro (final cut studio 2.0), shot on a sony z-7. It is of course in 16:9 anamorphic.

Now we are trying to "print to tape" to dvcam on the Sony Z-7. We see the image on the camera's screen. BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE IMAGE IS SQUASHED WITH A LETTER BOX ADDED IN THE ALREADY 16:9 SCREEN. We tried all possibilities in the menu of the camera, but no luck.

Any advice???

Thank you very much to anyone reading this!

Kind regards,
Robert

You captured as HDV to record back as DVCAM?

A better way might have been to *downconvert* to DVCAM in the camera using the "Squeeze" option in the downconvert menu while capturing to DV anamorphic. I've had no problem going back to camera in widescreen DVCAM that way.

Your recording format in camera is 16:9?

- Loren

Today's FCP keytip:
Invoke your Opacity/Audio Levels Adjust dialog with
Command-Option-L !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Loren is right about the correct procedure. You should have down converted to SD when you captured in FCP. Then you wouldn't have this problem.

But it's only a trailer, so try this (I've done this through trial and error, so it's not the best way of preserving quality): do a "conversion" export to Quick Time DV movie and bring it into iMovie. Then export to camera. The camera will see it and you'll be able to right away figure out what the format looks like.

i kind of doubt iMovie is the best way to go.

but how ARE you trying to do this?

why don't you drop your edited sequence into a new DV timeline,
render,
and play out.


nick

Thanks everyone for your replies.

THe footage was shot in hdv (16:9) and edited in hdv. The place where the trailer is being screened only has a dvcam deck. This is why I need to output to a dvcam tape in 16:9.

Thanks for the advice - will try what you guys said.

Kind regards,
Robert

to be clear,

when i say "drag your edited sequence"
i mean drag it from the BROWSER

and the timeline you drop it into should be DV (PAL or NTSC) anamorphic


nick

HDV isn't anamorphic. It's native 16:9. I'd go with Nick's advice, drop the whole timeline in a new timeline set up to be the format your camera wants to accept, render, then output.

Quote
Jude wrote: HDV isn't anamorphic. It's native 16:9.

What do you mean? For example, my Sony Z1U shoots 1440x1080. This is an HDV format. It is 4:3 anamorphic.

The Sony Z7 is the same HDV 4:3 format and is therefore anamorphic 4:3.

The question in this thread is how can Robert output a DVCAM tape for display. He has not reported that the advice he received here has enabled him to do that.

So, Nick, with all due respect, what are you advising him to do as far as outputting to DVCAM?

Apparently it's not what is the correct way for Robert to edit this short trailer (which I don't suppose he wants to re-edit from scratch). He wants a quick way to output a DVCAM tape.

So my way of doing it in iMovie may be the best way (and the quality isn't going to be bad, because I've done it when I was stuck with the HDV GOP structure problems of not being able to going back to the HDV camera, as discussed by Jeff Harrell in the thread where he expertly explained the complexities of encoding and re-encoding HDV).

Nick's solution is the correct one.

Do not go to iMovie, which halves the frame resolution by dropping a field.

"what are you advising him to do as far as outputting to DVCAM?"

Put the edited HDV sequence into a DV anamorphic sequence and output it to tape, or whatever else he wants to do with this standard def version.

Well, alright, then. But what I think he was trying to do was output his HDV trailer back to the Sony Z7 in the DVCAM format, in which case the camera wasn't doing it right.

What I have succeeded in doing was output an 83 minute movie that was edited in a native HDV timeline (FCP 5.04), with titles and effects by converting the whole movie to a .dv movie, bringing it into iMovie and then outputting back to my Sony Z1U camera using the simple iMovie export to the camera. The quality was superb, but only by judging it on my own monitors. I didn't test to see what the image would look like on a 50 inch monitor for example.

At the time (this was a few years back), I didn't understand why a movie that was captured from my HDV camera and edited in an HDV timeline in FCP 5 -- why I couldn't lay it back to my HDV camera again. But after Jeff Harrell explained the changes that occur in the FCP HDV timeline and how that HDV is now different from the original HDV in the camera, I understand that it cannot be done.

So here I thought Robert was having the same problem, but it's different because DV doesn't have the problems of HDV. Thanks for clarifying this.

> I didn't understand why a movie that was captured from my HDV camera and edited in an HDV
>timeline in FCP 5 -- why I couldn't lay it back to my HDV camera again.

That's coz your camera is set up wrongly. You can go back to HDV, but it is not advisable.


> by converting the whole movie to a .dv movie, bringing it into iMovie and then outputting back
>to my Sony Z1U camera using the simple iMovie export to the camera.

That's terrible advice.

Either A, nest it in FCP in a DV timeline, as Nick and Tom mentioned, or B, bring it into Compressor to convert to DV, then bring it back into FCP and PTT/ETT.



www.strypesinpost.com

I don't quite agree. I suspect that the HDV conversion (via Compressor ok) to .dv and subsequent output via iMovie HD to the Sony Z1 would result in better quality video than down converting to DV and then going back to the camera. Ive done it and I seem to remember it looks much better than the SD output to tape.

But I could be wrong.

>But I could be wrong.

You are right that you are wrong. ".dv" is DV, but without a Quicktime wrapper. In other words, it is DV (SD). I don't think Compressor can compress to an unwrapped DV stream.


>Ive done it and I seem to remember it looks much better than the SD output to tape.

I would seriously advice you to consult an experienced online editor on your workflow, as it seems rather suspect.



www.strypesinpost.com

I have to concede the point with respect to advising Robert here. I have never run across so many experienced online editors as I have on this site. I thought perhaps my experience with iMovie and .dv files when trying to wriggle out of a time crunch situation could be useful to share. I was once in a situation that Robert is in here; I had to output from FCP to tape, to take and send the MiniDV to someone who requested a copy of the movie and the only encoding that worked was the iMovie and its easy output interface with my Sony Z1U camera.

i wonder what it was that you liked about the iMovie result?

Tom is saying that that method would do a de-interlace on the film.
("Do not go to iMovie, which halves the frame resolution by dropping a field. "

maybe this is what you thought looked good?
maybe you preferred this de-interlaced "film look"

i haven't used iMovie, and i didn't know that about it,
but my guess is it wouldn't be a great quality de-interlace.

ok for a quick turn-around screener though,
and i have used similar ticks in the past.


one more thing,
(and i don't want to take up a lot of this thread with it)

HDV is NOT anamorphic
it is natively 16/9, not 4/3.

if you do the math, then yes 1440/1080 does seem to be 4/3,

but the HDV pixels are wider. they are not square pixels.
that's why the frame size when you look at it is 16/9

Standard Def 16/9 works by stetching the entire image
which is what defines an anamorphic process.


nick

>HDV is NOT anamorphic
>it is natively 16/9, not 4/3.

Yes, Nick, you mentioned it. Here's where Apple and the HD world has us all confused. FCP doesn't refer to HD formats as anamorphic, but HDV, DvcproHD, and a few other formats of HD are anamorphic formats, by definition. Anamorphic refers to storing pixels horizontally squashed and stretching them horizontally on playback to preserve aspect ratio. This form of horizontal pixel subsampling allows less pixels to be encoded (1440x1080 vs 1980x1080), thus saving bandwidth/storage. But of course, if FCP was to have HDV with the anamorphic checkbox checked, it would confuse the hell out of everyone, as there would be guys editing HDV as 4:3 and wondering why their subjects look skinny.



www.strypesinpost.com