To Render or Not to Render...

Hi all,

I've got a 90 minute 10 bit 4:2:2 Quicktime .mov in my 10 bit sequence and it's showing Green in the render bar. I want to export it with Compressor as an Mpeg2 m2v and AC3 audio for import into DVD Studio Pro. I want the DVDSP files ready for a meeting tomorrow morning with my editor and it's asking for 2 hours to turn that green render bar grey. Is it recommended to render? This DVD should be of utmost quality as I plan to get it professionally replicated. Any info much appreciated!

Thanks,
Alexander

Macbook Pro Unibody 2.8 ghz
4GB Ram
FCP v6.0.3

If it's already one movie file, why are you putting it into an FCP timeline? Just drag it into Compressor.


www.derekmok.com

there are some lower 3rds titles that are not on the movie as sales agent wanted a completely textless movie file for international sales.

What's the format/codec of the original movie? What's the format/codec of your sequence? Something in your settings is not matching so rendering means that you'll be converting your original movie into the format/codec of your sequence.

Andy

yeah, get the clip & sequence settings to match.
should be simple in FCP6.

once done, the only sections needing renders should be the lower 3rds

if pressed for time,
render, then export as a reference (non self containted) movie,
but put "REF" or "REFERENCE" into the export name, so you know it's a reference movie.


nick

The clip is 10 bit 4:2:2 and the sequence is the same. Is it because my Macbook Pro is underpowered (2.8 ghz Penryn) or Firewire 800 connection to ext. hard drive not fast enough to support 10 bit playback? Rendering has always remained a mystery and a headache for me :-p

So if it's non self-contained then it rendering won't affect quality then?

10 bit 4:2:2 is not a format/codec. I saw what you wrote on your first post. What I'm asking for is the frame size of your clip and sequence (ie: 1920x1080, 720x486) and the codec (uncompressed, prores, dvcproHD, dv/ntsc, etc.)

Andy

Yes, you're right. I looked at it again with an editor and we noticed the frame size on sequence was DV 3:2 (720x480) but it should have been CCIR 601 NTSC (40:27) (720X486) to match the Quicktime movie. A difference of 6 pixels but what a headache! As you can tell I'm still a FCP newbie! I'm assuming CCIR 601 NTSC is the standard for high quality 10 bit movie? I've also checked "Render all material in YUV". Trying to make the highest SD output from FCP into DVD SP. Thank you guys!

I think I've adjusted the clip and sequence settings to match but I still have a green render bar. I have an output that I'm on a deadline for... HELP!

My clip settings:


My sequence settings:





Macbook Pro Unibody 2.8 ghz
4GB Ram
FCP v6.0.3

Go to user preferences. In the "editing" tab, go to auto conform sequence, switch that to "ask". Create a new timeline, pop your clip into it, and pop up dialog box should appear. Click "yes".



www.strypesinpost.com

Hm, still get the green render bar. Strange though, as I did what Strypes recommended but when I paste the sequence it just copies without any "Ask" pop-up. When I check the Sequence settings, it's DV for compressor and aspect ratio (720x480). So something is off... Is it cause my Macbook Pro is not powerful enough? I'm connecting only 1 external drive with FW800

Not sure why it would conform to DV if your source clip is Uncompressed in this case. You may want to double check if 23.98 is 23.98 or if FCP would list 23.976 as the frame rate for the clip in the browser. (check if there's any change in the total duration, and whether there's any speed changes made by FCP)

The render bar has nothing to do with how powerful your machine is. Rendering means something doesn't fit, and I'm not quite sure what it is, but here are some settings which doesn't make much any difference in for this.

In the video processing tab:

- Motion Filtering Quality can be set to normal, as you aren't scaling anything.

- render setting can be set to "render 10 bit material in high precision YUV" as all your material on the timeline is 10 bits.



www.strypesinpost.com

Are you sure that your source footage is 23.98? That seems VERY odd for standard def NTSC. Typically standard def is 29.97. If you are placing 23.98 footage into a 29.97 sequence then you're always going to have a render bar even if everything else conforms.

Andy

PS: The ask to conform setting only works on sequences with nothing in them, and it doesn't work on copy and pasted material. If you start a new sequence and just normally edit a new clip into it, you should get the dialog asking if you want to conform the sequence.

> still get the green render bar. Strange though, as I did what Strypes recommended but when I
> paste the sequence it just copies without any "Ask" pop-up. When I check the Sequence
> settings, it's DV for compressor and aspect ratio (720x480). So something is off... Is it cause my
> Macbook Pro is not powerful enough? I'm connecting only 1 external drive with FW800

Unfortunately, you've sent yourself on a wild goose chase here by making some wrong assumptions. Second, you do not cut/copy/paste a clip if it's having problems in one timeline. That said clip will carry any problems (eg. resizing, distort) that were generated when it was edited into the wrong timeline with wrongs settings. You have to create a new timeline with correct settings, then re-edit the master clip from the Browser into the new timeline. If you get any kind of visible render bar, STOP. Undo the operation so you end up with a blank timeline again, and troubleshoot.

First of all, you shouldn't be using a DV sequence. Use Easy Setup to set everything to SD NTSC 10-bit. Create a new Sequence, which will carry the presets for Uncompressed 10-bit SD. Then access the Sequence Settings (APPLE-0) of that Sequence and change the frame rate to 23.98fps. When you drag the clip into this new Sequence, if it tells you the settings don't match, choose to conform the Sequence to the clip settings (that's what "Ask" was for).


www.derekmok.com

Strypes
-Yes, the frame rate is correctly set to 23.976 fps.
-OK.
-Would the FCP text titles on the timeline also be considered 10 bit?

Andy
-Footage was shot with DVX-100 in 24p advanced mode which is a true SD 23.976fps. I get this all the time from Hollywood tech managers at big post houses who just shake their head in disbelief.
-Interesting

Derek
-What you said works perfectly, no more render bar! I guess 10 bit is natively 720x486. So now how to get my audio, titles and chapter markers in there without bringing the corruption or whatever it is from the other sequence?

Audio and titles you can just copy and paste. But chapter markers you'd have to redo by hand.


www.derekmok.com

Quote

-Footage was shot with DVX-100 in 24p advanced mode which is a true SD 23.976fps. I get this all the time from Hollywood tech managers at big post houses who just shake their head in disbelief.

Actually 24PA mode for the DVX-100 is 29.97 with a 2:3:3:2 pulldown applied. You record onto a miniDV tape which means that your source footage is 720x480 DV NTSC @ 29.97. If you don't remove the pulldown when you digitize, then you still have 29.97 source footage.

When you finally got this to work, did FCP conform the sequence for you? If it did, I'm curious as to what the final sequence settings are?

Andy

Cripes. I didn't mean copy and paste. You'd copy and paste all the filters/motion tab changes applied to the clip and you'll need to render because of that.

> I guess 10 bit is natively 720x486.

It is both 480 and 486. Both are supported.


>-Would the FCP text titles on the timeline also be considered 10 bit?

Doesn't matter if your video is 10 bits, it will render in float.



www.strypesinpost.com