Re: Recommended reading / cutting first feature trailer?

Hi all

I have the opportunity to cut my first feature film trailer and I thought I would ask to see if anyone could recommend something written by an editor, or other, that might help enlighten certain esoteric aspects of the process.

thank you

Ed

"In the Blink of an Eye", by Walter Murch; "The Lean Forward Moment", by Norman Hollyn. But then again, that has more to do with story building, which tends to be more about crafting cut points in a dramatic sequence. Editing trailers is a different art- slightly different, where you try to create the "wow" factor early, and leave the audience begging for more.



www.strypesinpost.com

Books don't help with trailers (IMHO). I go by what feels right in my gut. You have to know the film inside-out / upside down and pull the best out of it.

My inspirations are all visual. I go to the Apple Trailers site and watch HOURS of trailers. I constantly pull inspiration for everything I do from there. If you really want to learn, think of the trailers that make you feel good. Also search YouTube and other video sites for classic trailers based on the genre of the film you are working on.

Feel it...don't read it.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

?and don't put your cuts in the same order the way the movie is. The idea is to keep the viewer guessing how the movie is going to unfold.

Thanks for the advise

And please don't show us the whole movie. So many these days make you realise you don't need to see the film once you've seen the trailer.

Watch a lot of trailers. A LOT. Mainly to movies you have seen so you can be familiar with the story, and how they cut the trailer to tease that story.


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What Shane said, basically. But as you're watching, think about what makes some trailers special.

You know that old saying about how every character in a movie, from the lead down to Spear Carrier #3, is always thinking of himself as the hero of his own story? A movie trailer ? at least a good one ? is a short film in its own right. And this is the important point: It's not necessarily, or even usually, about what the feature it's advertising is about.

Take the trailer for The Matrix for example. That one manages to show virtually every money shot from the film, often in context! But you still come away from it knowing practically nothing about the plot of the movie. That trailer is bookended by two snippets of dialogue: "It's the question that drives us," and "No one can be told what the matrix is." That's the focus of the trailer, but that's conspicuously not the focus of the film itself.

Or consider Garden State. It's blindingly obvious ? I'm talking about the first, dialogue-less one here ? that the editor decided in advance what his trailer was going to be about: It was going to be about the cinematography. To hell with plot, to hell with performances, to hell with everything. Here's a movie packed to the portholes with gorgeous, whimsical, eloquent, Kubrickian shots, and that's what the trailer is going to show. And it worked extremely well, to the point where it's not uncommon to hear people say the trailer for Garden State is a better, more skillful, more artistic film than the movie itself is.

Or how about Strange Days. Remember that one? Grossly underrated Kathryn Bigelow film from '95, I think it was. Starred Ralph Fiennes, and the trailer consists of just him, delivering a short monologue more-or-less lifted verbatim from the film straight to camera in a chin-to-eyebrows extreme close-up. At the end, after the title sting, we cut back to Fiennes who tilts his head and growls, "You know you want it." And by that point in the trailer, he's right. We haven't got the foggiest goddamn idea what it is that we want, but we know there's an it there, and we know that we want it.

Of course, unless you've got a world-class lead actor and the flexibility to include not a single frame from your film in your trailer, that's not a good one to try to emulate. But still, it makes the point: A good trailer knows what it's about. The trailer for The Matrix was a mystery; the one for Garden State was an impressionist piece, and the one for Strange Days was a character piece. In none of these examples was the trailer about what the movie was about.

Magnolia is a special case. Go find the original full-length (2:30) trailer for that film. The first half ? up through where the frog and flower appear and Ricky Jay says "This will all make sense in the end" ? is a work of art. Truly. It's magnificent. But then it all just goes right off the rails, and you can feel it. It just loses all ? well, narrative momentum ? which is an awful pun, since that's the title of the Aimee Mann song featured in the trailer's first half. But wordplay aside, you can feel it. You can feel the point where the trailer stops being a short film in its own right and starts being a clumsy, pointless advertisement.

Other amazingly-fantastic trailers off the top of my head: Little Children, Where the Wild Things Are [the first, 90-second one], Unbreakable. The 1:20 teaser for The Matrix Reloaded gets special mention for being a trailer that was almost perfect. Why only almost? Because when you watch it outside the context in which it was originally released, it doesn't quite work. It opens with twelve seconds of black screen and near-silence, for crying out loud! At the time, it was genius. The Matrix Reloaded was one of the most anticipated sequels in a decade jammed wall-to-wall with sequels, and having a trailer start with ten seconds of near-silence before that first green character appears at the top of the screen was the act of a magnificent bastard. I remember seeing that trailer in theaters a number of times, and each time the audience went nuts just when they were meant to. At the time, that was one of the best trailers ever, but its impact was so tied in with the anticipation already present in the audience that it basically doesn't work at all when removed from that. Whether that makes it more or less good is up for debate, I suppose, but I tend to come down on the side of less.

In short ? yeah. What Shane said. Watch trailers.

While we're on the subject, do you guys happen to know if Fox got a special dispensation for their Avatar trailer? I was under the impression that trailers were limited to two and a half minutes ? no idea where I got that idea; I could be totally wrong about it ? but that one was three and a half minutes long.

That one would also go on my list of outstanding trailers, by the way. But Jude must hate it, since it's literally the entire movie.

This reminds me. I am so wanting to do Trailer night at lafcpug. We have so many good trailer houses in LA and its nuts lafcpug has never done a Trailer Night. They all use FCP and they all share interesting stories. Damn, I just got to do it and make it happen.

Interesting note and not sure if its true or not cause it sound ridiculous. Many of the trailer houses do spec trailers in order to get the gig. In other words, studios ask them to cut a trailer and then they pick the best one and tweak from there.

Michael Horton
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I deliberately didn't watch the Avatar trailer since I wanted to actually enjoy the story when I went to the movies.

We actually had to cut a trailer as one of our first assignments at Uni. I did Legend. A great film to practice on.

One that's worked for me recently is Shatter Island. Looks a bit predictable but so pretty. The actual plot hasn't been given away completely, but you know the feel of the movie.

Is it weird that I think I'd go gay for Tim Curry in the Darkness makeup?

You should watch the Avatar trailer. If nothing else, it's neat because it doesn't feel like it's a full minute longer than other trailers. Plus it's a good example of the Power of Other People's Soundtracks.

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Is it weird that I think I'd go gay for Tim Curry in the Darkness makeup?

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Yeah some kind of massive naughty power in Tim Curry in that movie. So many people have never heard of it - and it stars Tim and Tom Cruise. Go figure.

Not to mention the fact that it was directed by Ridley freakin' Scott. Reasonable people can disagree as to whether it was a successful film or not, but it's definitely not some obscure art-house flick or B-movie.

Here's a 25 year old "Legend" trailer = OLD SCHOOL BABY!! Music and sound design are a big part of the project so don't overlook them. I still get chills when he says "IIIIII AAAAM DAAAAAARKNEEESSSSSSSSS!!!"





When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

two or three changes in pace can work well also

VERY good trailer osbourne

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Cripes, I feel pangs of guilt refusing to let an advanced editing student RECUT existing trailers-- not take material from the movies, which might have been useful-- for her final rather than cut a real movie which was provided. She called me the worst professor at school because I wouldn't let her RECUT existing trailers to give them new meaning. Sulky punk!

But I have to realize we live in a cluttervision media landscape and the kids are used to disjointed out of context flipped around stuff. Teaching them to respect storytelling is a huge job these days and I admir eanyone who does it well.

Takes nothing away from trailer cutting to say that-- trailers are a rich art and craft, infused with energy, informed by marketing, not storytelling needs. They can be a hellava lot of fun to make, and instructive because they are totally audience-driven -- if often to the point of pandering.

Sam Arkoff aside, in the beginning is the story.

- Loren

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> I feel pangs of guilt refusing to let an advanced editing student RECUT existing trailers-- not take
> material from the movies, which might have been useful-- for her final rather than cut a real
> movie which was provided. She called me the worst professor at school because I wouldn't let
> her RECUT existing trailers to give them new meaning. Sulky punk!

How about:

Every narrative editor I've met can cut promos, sports, commercials, documentary, trailers, but not every promo/sports/commercial/documentary/trailer editor I've met can cut narrative?

Tell her that. Narrative editing is the strictest, most elusive, most advanced, least toys-driven type of editing. If you can make a piece exciting with cuts and dissolves, you can surely do it with the toys available to trailers, promos and other flashy forms. I also know a few trailer producers and editors who are so used to that format that their first instinct is always, "Write a voice-over." Try that in Basic Instinct and see how well that works: "I was in bed with Catherine and we did this..."

> Teaching them to respect storytelling is a huge job these days and I admir eanyone who does
> it well.

That's fine. That's why young 21-year-old editors don't necessarily provide us with much competition. They don't know their head from their tuchus, they just know how to mark the "one" beat and always cut there, visual and logical flow be damned, stylistic choice be damned, subtlety be damned.


www.derekmok.com

derekmok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about:
>
> Every narrative editor I've met can cut promos,
> sports, commercials, documentary, trailers, but
> not every
> promo/sports/commercial/documentary/trailer editor
> I've met can cut narrative?


That hasn't been my experience. Sometimes, sure. But real narrative editing versus everything else (promo, doc, trailers, etc.) uses difference editing "muscles" for sure.

- Justin Barham -

I will disagree with that as well (for the most part), Derek. You are generalizing based on your market. In LA, everyone (for the most part - more than anywhere else I personally have seen) specializes. Narrative editors cut narrative - spot editors cut spots. You have to keep an open mind bro and remember there are those of us out here in "the sticks" that can do & handle both because we have to. That's the beauty of the LAFCPUG = not all of us are from LA

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

> You are generalizing based on your market.

Joe, of course I'm generalizing.

Notice I wrote, "Every narrative editor I've met...not every trailer editor I've met."

I haven't met every editor of every format on earth.

So please don't accuse me of having a closed mind. In that statement, I could not have been clearer about the personal nature of it. And crisp general catchphrases like that are meant to teach something to students, not to be 100 per cent true. For example: "Garbage In, Garbage Out"; "don't use Capture Now"; "don't nest".

I'll be the first to admit I'm far, far stronger at narrative, music video and promos than I am at trailers, whlie a professional trailer editor can whack out something in two hours that would match the format much more closely than if I worked a whole day on one.


www.derekmok.com

It's all 'bout Sound Design. You need a towering amount of SFX, music etc. to pull it off correctly.

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There are two ways to do music for feature trailers: either have ES Posthumus on speedial, or just drop in that one cue from Randy Edelman's Dragon score and call it a day.

Ironically, it seems like pretty much either approach works equally well these days.

Accusing ? C'mon man. You are as opinionated as I am so let's keep it easy breezy. All I am saying is all the Editors "you've met" are pretty much in LA, correct?

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Right Kevin...the edit is only HALF the piece (if that). The Sound Design can put it over the top...or kill it. I work extra close with Composers / Sound Designers when available on all my spots.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

> You are as opinionated as I am so let's keep it easy breezy. All I am saying is all the Editors
> "you've met" are pretty much in LA, correct?

No, I worked in New York before this. And before you say "That's another major market"...my statement had nothing to do with markets, big or small, American or not. It had to do with my own personal experience. I don't see how that would apply to, say, the Florida or Mississipi markets, because I've never worked in Florida or Mississipi.

If I had written, "No trailer editor can cut narrative", that's a different deal. I wrote "Not every trailer editor I've met can cut narrative." Which is why I was peeved at your statement:

>" You have to keep an open mind bro and remember there are those of us out here in 'the
> sticks' that can do & handle both"

Trailers are narratives. Much shorter narratives, like commercials except even less linear. Commercials are written like jokes. Trailers are, in many ways, more like press releases than short stories -- take a pre-existing narrative and distilling to the most saleable, attractive elements, then reorganizing. The point was that many young editors focus only on rhythm and visual attractiveness; some of them would cut a trailer for Ordinary People the same way as one for Domino. Celestial Pictures' video re-releases of Shaw Brothers films, for example, include trailers that try to ape the Matrix style of editing, and they completely misrepresented the films, which were old-school kung fu films.


www.derekmok.com

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Commercials are written like jokes.

Or little mini-tear jerkers. Remember that AT&T spot where the weary businessman is at the airport, picks up his phone and suddenly this little girl is sitting beside him saying "I miss you, daddy?" Oy, the waterworks. Every single time.

But your point is well taken. Some cinematic works go for the brain, while others go for the heart. An editor who's really good at talking to the audience's brains won't necessarily be as skilled at talking to their hearts, and vice versa. The suggestion that somebody, somewhere, might be just as good at doing both doesn't negate the larger point that these are two different kinds of things.

Imagine you were hiring somebody. A guy who waltzes in and declares that he's just awesome at everything would, I think, rightly be met with some skepticism. Sure, it's possible an editor might be able to do top-shelf work in any format or genre, but it seems clear at least to me that most people can't. Most people have strengths and weaknesses.

(Not me, though. I'm wall-to-wall weakness over here. I'm agonize equally over all formats and genres!)

Derek wrote-
[ Trailers are, in many ways, more like press releases than short stories]

I like a lot of what Derek wrote above but this doesn't cover it. Most trailers I see these days evoke a mood-- especially the dark "gangrene cinema" stuff being cranked out. A few flashes of rotten teeth and bone crunching and wheezed breathing on the track, that sort of thing. No story, no precis, no dramatic stakes. All attitude. I roll my eyes. I'd rather visit a morgue.

- Loren

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