beginner keyframing problem

this is my first post here, so please be gentle...

i have a still frame and i want to zoom in on it, slowly, then fast at the end. i put in keyframes at the beginning and end (basic motion/scale) with a bezier curve. this works nicely, but...

at the end, the frame isn't right. so i added two more keyframes (basic motion/center). the manual says i can't add bezier curves, because it's a two dimensional paramter (x,y).

so i put the playback over the first keyframe from the scale parm, add one for center, too, go to the end, add another one and drag the (now zoomed) frame on the canvas where it should be.

when i play that back, i get a wild sweep of the image in two directions, first up (showing a nasty black border at the bottom), then down. it does finish on the right point, but what's all the in-between stuff? the center should only move in one, but it moves in two directions.

perhaps someone had this problem when they first started out and can point me in the right direction. thanks in advance.

--
macpro 2x3 ghz dual core intel, 10.6.8, FCS 2

Congratulations, you've discovered the "evil snake of doom" (a term coined by Graeme Natress). I had this problem when I first started, and I still have it because it is a basic limitation in FCP when you try to make 2 kinds of moves (scale and center) while adding ease in/out. Rumor has it that you can overcome this with very careful adjustment of the bezier curves and the "dots' in the motion path, but I've never had enough patience to achieve what I really wanted. I don't think FCP is the best tool for this; Motion is probably better but I haven't had the time to perfect it there either.

All that isn't very helpful, except to let you know you're not alone. If someone wants to chime in with the definitive solution to this, I'm (we're) all ears.

Scott

I'm afraid that I also cannot give you a definitive solution, but from what you've described <a wild sweep> I'm wondering if FCP has inserted extra keyframes without your permission or knowledge.

ok so maybe the sweep isn't all that wild, but it's definitely a sweep in two directions - first up, then down.

there are exactly two keyframes for scale, one at the beginning, one at the end. i double checked by deleting them individually (then undo). they are joined with a bezier curve.

for center, there are also just 2 keyframes, but no bezier curve, because that's not possible, afaik.

i also made a copy of my sequence to test the following: delete keyframes for scale, then undo and delete keyframes for center. as long as only one parameter is being modulated, the result is as expected, but when they are both working, it's something else altogether.

--
macpro 2x3 ghz dual core intel, 10.6.8, FCS 2

Quote

I'm wondering if FCP has inserted extra keyframes

It's not that. It all comes about when you add ease in/out to the mix, to try to smooth out the start and/or end of the scaling change or the motion. If you step through the timeline (while the clip you're watching is selected) and watch the canvas (in image/wireframe mode) you'll see that the path has been "automatically" modified with bezier handles and changes in the spacing between the motion "dots." If you're really careful (and you can actually see what this forest of controls is doing!) you can maybe make it do what you want. Doing ease in/out on simple scale change OR motion, it works fine. Combining the two movements is where it falls apart.

Actually, there is another case, which you have discovered - if you are doing a simple center move, trying to ease in/out at BOTH ends gets you the problem, doing just one end behaves itself.

Scott

Make a hard copy of the still. Take a video camera and shoot the sucker :-)

I wish I could remember all the details of this, but alas I cannot. I was in a seminar a couple of years ago and the instructor had a fix for this. Instead of using the center attribute to move the picture, use the anchor point instead. You can move this by using the distort tool (d). Drag the anchor point over the center of the frame in your final composition and set to ease in.

It should do less swooping around the scene.

-V

It also helps if you make your canvas large and then zoom in a LOT to see the animation line for the move. What you'll discover is that the combination of the two sets of keyframes confuses FCPs Ease curve so that it's wildly out of sorts. However, you can grab the bezier handle in the canvas (in Image+Wireframe mode) and straighten the move out. Then by either lengthening or shortening the handle, you can adjust the speed towards the end keyframe.

However, that said, it's FAR less annoying/frustrating, to send the clip to Motion where you can use a simple Move behavior set to Accelerate in the Speed controls. Takes less than thirty seconds from start to finish. Maybe a few minutes if you're unused to Motion.

Andy

thanks to all for chiming in. it's surprising that something that is so cumbersome and obviously not thought out persists in a version 6 (and presumably 7).

i took the advice and exported to motion which i never used before. even so, within about 20 minutes it did what i wanted. next time it will be a breeze (i hope).

great forum, guys!!