Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i

Posted by Andy Wills 
Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 16, 2010 12:54AM
Dear LAFCPUG friends,

I have to combine my graded film, which is at 23.98fps progressive, with my animated end roll, which is at 29.97fps interlaced.

The end roll has to be at 29.97 interlaced so that the motion is smooth at the speed that it is required to roll at.

The film will have to be changed into 29.97fps interlaced so that it can be mastered onto a NTSC Digi Beta.

I'm hiring a studio for making this master, as I don't have a Digi Beta deck. - I need to send the film and end roll to the studio as one complete quicktime movie at 29.97i.

I can't see how to export or transcode my 23.98p film into 29.97i.

Can anybody tell me how to do this?

I am using FCP 7 on a Macbook Pro that I bought in 2008, now running Snow Leopard.

Thanks very much in advance for any advice you can give.

All the best,

Andy Wills
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 16, 2010 05:42AM
Quote

I can't see how to export or transcode my 23.98p film into 29.97i.

Computers aren't powerful enough to do that yet.

Okay, they are. But Final Cut does not have this feature. And the workarounds all suck eggs.

What you want to do is to send your post house a 24p Quicktime of your feature, and a separate 60i Quicktime of your credits. Have them lay off the feature with pulldown insertion (this is done in real time by the I/O board), then insert-edit the credits after the feature.

Alternately, you could get them to lay off the feature, then didge it back in at 60i preserving the pulldown, then send you the Quicktime for you to edit your credits onto, finally sending a whole 60i Quicktime to them for final mastering. But that's gonna be more expensive and time-consuming, probably.

Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 16, 2010 08:13AM
If you are going out to tape for broadcast (which is why most of us add pulldown), the IO board at the post house can add a pulldown on the fly on the way out to tape.

Otherwise, the JES Deinterlacer can add a pulldown to a digital file (and fast). After Effects can add a pulldown as well.

[www.xs4all.nl]



www.strypesinpost.com
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 16, 2010 10:44AM
To sum up.

Use JES or AE to add pulldown to your 23.98 movie (i.e. a native resolution export, use Export Quicktime, of just the 23.98 section).

Import back it into FCP. Lay your new movie on a 29.97 timeline, add the 29.97 credits and export the whole thing. Take that to the post house for layback to D-Beta.

PS
Your end roll doesn't have to be at 29.97 to make it smooth. You have to know how to wrangle the software you're using to make the roll move at whole pixel increments and not use skinny line fonts but you can do it. You've solved one problem by making another.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 17, 2010 02:03PM
Thanks for your advice.

Adding pulldown in After Effects is best for me as my animator is now unavailable.

Do you know the correct settings for After Effects?

I've tried all the different phase settings, but each time I get a distorted image with skipped frames and jerky motion. (Diagonal lines in the image are pixelated/jagged.)

I'm assuming the "field render" should be set to "lower field first", because standard NTSC sequences in Final Cut have "lower (even)" field dominance.

This seems to be the last hurdle for me!

Cheers, Andy
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 17, 2010 02:34PM
>I'm assuming the "field render" should be set to "lower field first", because standard NTSC
>sequences in Final Cut have "lower (even)" field dominance.

Yea. NTSC is all lower. But change frame rate to "use this frame rate: 29.97", and "3:2 pulldown: wwssw".

And yea, watch it on a broadcast monitor, not your computer.



www.strypesinpost.com
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 17, 2010 05:04PM
Strangely, with these settings I'm still getting interlacing errors when I apply pulldown in After Effects.

Puzzling! Anyone got any idea where I might be going wrong?

Andy
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 17, 2010 05:09PM
Interlacing errors? What do you mean? How are you monitoring the video?



www.strypesinpost.com
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 17, 2010 05:09PM
Unfortunately there are many places where you might be going wrong, 'cause it's a fairly complicated process. I may have mentioned before how workarounds like this, in my opinion, suck.

First thing: make sure your comp matches your source material precisely. Easiest way to do this is to drag the source material to the little "make comp" button at the bottom of the project pane.

Next, make sure you're at least working in 16-bit mode. Otherwise everything's gonna get trunc'd to 8 bits, and that's bad.

Next, verify that your comp's frame rate is 23.976. If it's not, you might need to reterp your footage.

Next, render it out into a lossless-ish format, but do not use the built-in "Lossless" preset that After Effects provides. Because that preset is not lossless. It is, in fact, intensely lossy.

In the render module settings ? I think; it might be the output module settings ? turn field render on, set the output frame rate to 29.97, and choose WWSSW for your pulldown pattern.

Unless I've forgotten something, that should work. I've probably forgotten something, though.

Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 18, 2010 04:16PM
Hi - thanks for these tips.

I set After Effects to 32-bit mode and made a new comp with 23.976fps

In preferences I changed the import footage setting to 23.976

For the output format I chose dv/dvcpro ntsc; 16:9; lower field first; wwssw; 29.97i

The frame size and proportions of the output were correct, but I got blurred frames which look like two fields have been interlaced together that don't match.

- So a moving hand has a blurred trail one frame behind, which appears as many tiny horizontal lines with spaces in between.

- Also static diagonal lines in the output mov (e.g. the edge of a window) are jagged/pixelated.

I am viewing the output material on the HD monitor of my Macbook Pro, using quicktime player, and also via a 29.97i ntsc sequence in Final Cut, on the same monitor, with the canvas view set to 100%.

The original file I got back from the grader is 24p, but I have been playing it at 23.98 in Final Cut with no problem. The frame count is the same.

I tried outputting a 24p sample of the same footage from a 24p Final Cut sequence and importing it into a 24p After Effects Comp, but I could already see the pixelated/jagged diagonal lines in After Effects (the same as at 23.98), even before applying pulldown.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out with this.

Chancing my arm here: is there any chance I could email one of you a couple of seconds of the original footage so you can see what I'm talking about? - It's just dv footage, so it wouldn't be a very big file.

Anyway - thanks again

Andy
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 18, 2010 06:40PM
Quote

I got blurred frames which look like two fields have been interlaced together that don't match.

Not to be rude, but you know how 3:2 pulldown works, right?

Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 18, 2010 08:46PM
>I am viewing the output material on the HD monitor of my Macbook Pro, using quicktime player, and also via a 29.97i ntsc sequence in Final Cut, on the same monitor, with the canvas view set to 100%.

Don't do this Andy, you've taken your progressive source and created interlaced footage out of it ... and you need to view interlaced footage on a monitor that properly displays interlaced video. View it on your external video monitor ... its only DV right? well then you can do this by passing it via firewire through your old DV camera and out to your TV.
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 18, 2010 08:54PM
>For the output format I chose dv/dvcpro ntsc

Kind of curious, what was your input format?



www.strypesinpost.com
Re: Adding pulldown to 23.98fps material to create 29.97i
April 18, 2010 08:57PM
>Easiest way to do this is to drag the source material to the little "make comp" button at the
>bottom of the project pane.

Don't even have to do that. You can drag it straight to render queue. Just make sure the footage is interpreted correctly and the output modules are properly set.



www.strypesinpost.com
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