FCP in the workplace.

I wrote this email to a post supervisor friend of mine thinking of making the switch. I am not bashing FCP at all. But I was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences.

I don't mind it so much and in some ways I kinda dig it. Avid is still more sophisticated but FCP has made great strides in terms of simplifying and demystifying the workflow in terms of time and money allowing folks to put the money back up on the screen. Plus you a guaranteed to never have to work on a PC. Although I do find that just about everyone who works in the business but doesn't work in post, has a copy of FCP and knows enough about the software to be dangerous but not enough to be a competent post production professional. So allot of producers are having hipster, fanboy, interns or even story producers do the work of competent assistants and the prep of the project is often botched causing the editors numerous logistical headaches. This is not apple's fault because a properly prepped project runs like a dream in FCP. I think this is a phase that producers excited about saving some dime will have to learn the hard way. That is that knowing a piece of software does not mean that you understand post production workflow and that no matter how accessible the software is, owning it does not make you a highly skilled and organized post production professional. Back when it was all Avid you couldn't get within ten feet of an Avid unless you were serious about dedicating your life to post. Not the case in FCP, which isn't necessarily a good thing in terms of competency in the workflow pipeline. When left up to people who started on Avid and made the switch to FCP though, things couldn't be smoother because they have that "exclusivity of post" burned in there head and perform accordingly. I think it's better to hire an Avid editor who made the switch to FCP because they approach editing as a profession as opposed to just a paid hobby which is what the FCP community has turned it into on many levels. This democratization of media cuts both ways, just like what blogging and e-publishing did to print publishing, letting people in who should have always been in because they have the skills but also letting people in who shouldn't be in because they don't. This is all something the industry is going to have to work out in the coming years. That's been my experience. Hope your well ...

>When left up to people who started on Avid and made the switch to FCP though, things couldn't
>be smoother

Horses for courses. There are also lots of Avid guys who make the switch to FCP, and see it as a sort of "toy". They then expect it to behave like an Avid and get frustrated when it doesn't.

A good tech support team and post manager helps too. The fact that FCP started as a desktop solution to more expensive proprietary hardware editors also meant that a lot of producers do not hire the right personnel and team to run the suites, and end up paying the price for it, frustrating editors along the way. That's not to mention, FCP is a fly by the seat of your pants experiment for the uninitiated. You can edit off USB external hard drives and you can pop H.264 from a Canon DSLR straight into the timeline, and they don't come with a huge warning sign that you shouldn't do that, and lots of people think "hey, sure". Then end up having to salvage through a pile of mess towards the end of a project.



www.strypesinpost.com

As someone who grew up on FCP, but is not a professional editor, who also put in four years at an AVID only production company, I am inclined to basically agree with ianedit. Most of the best editors I have worked with in the past five years are AVID editors who learned FCP. Some hate FCP, some love it, but in general, lots of self-taught FCP editors have never worked at a post house, have never delivered to a studio client, have no concept of passing QC, how to best and most efficiently organize media assets and how protect their work through an intelligent backup system.

As a producer, I have been stung several times by editors who did not have a good backup system in place and their lack of planning and foresight has cost me big money and stress. Not that all AVID editors are great at this either, but generally, if you learned on an AVID, most editors seem to be more professional.

There are plenty of good artistic editors on FCP but that doesn't mean that they understand the stress of delivering large, complex projects on time and on budget. That is stuff you cannot teach yourself, you have to experience it in a professional setting.

I just gave a one day pointers class to a friend of mine who just switched from AVID to FCS and he was amazed at how free form the FCS experience is. I told him about the strengths as well as the weaknesses of FCS and how he is going to have to adjust his mindset that for most operations with FCS, there is no ONE single correct way of doing anything, there are usually between 2-6 ways to accomplish almost everything. Fortunately he knows about backing up your backups, system maintenance, how to treat drives, how to buy quality storage, etc.

FCS is a great democratizing tool and is a joy to use but many of the way it allows you to do things are likely to build bad and dangerous habits. I know I have some of my own. I started out logging DV and Beta SP and transitioning to solid state media has meant that some of the ways I used to log and capture have been sorely lacking as far as how to log and transfer P2, SxS and Canon 5D MKII footage.

Dan

I don't really see it as a question of Avid editors vs FCP editors. It's almost like the question of race, and it isn't about skin color but rather social conditions and mindset.

For editors, it's more of a question of experience and ability. Experience does not just mean calendar time, but exposure to the workflows, scale of production as well as years in the field. The sad fact of life (maybe not so sad) is that there are more FCP machines in smaller houses than there are Avids and there are more smaller houses around, so more FCP editors there too. Also, as Ian mentioned, that at one stage, to be an editor it meant total dedication to the craft (partly because the machines were soo pricey). And at that stage, NLEs were populated by Avids.

However, working at a post house doesn't necessarily mean that you know how to set up a project properly. At post houses, the job tends to be more specialized. The offline editor usually doesn't go to tape (you call and the tape room will patch you in) or touch the hardware (call tech support), you may not have Photoshop or After Effects (that's the graphics department). Of course, if the offline editor doesn't know how to organize his workflow effectively, the online editors will want to stab him with a blunt object (usually a wacom tablet).

That said, I know of FCP editors who have picked up Avid, as well as vice versa. FCP to Avid editors tend to have started on FCP in smaller productions (FCP editors also tend to be younger), while Avid to FCP editors tends to be either editors who have worked around quite a while (so they started in the ol' Meridien or Adrenaline days or even earlier like during the U-matic era) or started as assistants on larger productions.



www.strypesinpost.com

Wait a minute.....


I disagree with the premise that FCS editors are some how less qualified. An environment is an environment whether it is in the big networks and studios or in a small 10 man production company.

There are plenty of FCS editors that do back up properly and pass QC. They are often multifaceted understanding the entire process rather than my little part of the chain. In studio environments that i have visited and also post on this forum, I have noticed that it seems that a studio editor can not or is not allowed to sit in for a colorist or the GFX guy can't film.
I also know that the main argument to this observation is that it is better to have specifically trained people so that each step/element is at its best. I AGREE.

However, i do not think that it is appreciated what the versatility of the FCS all hands post people bring to the table. I am one of them. I at first had bad habits and such but once i was out of that i feel that i am just as careful as the next editor anywhere. I do not know everything and none of us really do but when we learn something new it is used.

Plus the High End studio does not carry the weight it use to. Short Form contracts that take 6 months to a year execute and exorbitant rates that can only be reached by 20-30% of the businesses in the U.S. There is a whole market out there that it missed but the 10man shops do not. Most of them are FCS/Adobe Studios. Larger companies are searching for them to come with something not pre-baked and standardized.
Budgets are being reduced and money is being used more efficiently. I say that versatility can reduce price and also be equal in quality on delivery.

Sure there a lot of people not ready for primetime but you don't have to be primetime to be a quality editor making more than a living salary. There are some editor that thought they were ready but were not and mess something up. There are companies that have been burned getting their nephew fresh out of gfx efx school and he's not ready either.

Then there is a guy who has been at it for years doing weddings and infomercials who is ready and can do an excellent job. FCS editors are as good as any as long as they have a clear workflow and a hunger for quality. They can do just as well.

Its not the system its the person that uses it.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

You hire people based on experience, NOT by what software they know.

I know plenty of people who only edit on FCP, but they have plenty of experience editing broadcast TV, and delivering to networks. Avid editors tend to know this because Avid's primary use is in broadcast TV and film work. FCP has a much broader user base...it is used in many more areas other than broadcast TV. So the rule is, don't hire someone as an editor if they haven't edited for broadcast before. HOW do they get broadcast experience...they get hired as ASSISTANTS first. And they should have at least ONE assistant who knows TV work...or the main editor teaches the assistant what to do.

You don't hire a writer because they know MS Word...and you don't hire an editor just because they know FCP. BUT...just because someone uses, say TEXT EDIT to write a novel, doesn't mean they are any less of a writer. It is all skill and experience. Hire the experience.

Any producer who is stupid enough to hire someone because they know the software, and doesn't look at experience, deserves all the headaches they end up with. And rest assured, they won't make the same mistake twice.


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Quote
strypes
editors who have worked around quite a while (so they started in the ol' Meridien or Adrenaline days or even earlier like during the U-matic era) or started as assistants on larger productions.

ugh! I remember taking delivery of the new Meridian boards and swapping out the old NuBus (is that right?) boards and something about ABVB systems.

Quote
Shane Ross
Any producer who is stupid enough to hire someone because they know the software, and doesn't look at experience, deserves all the headaches they end up with. And rest assured, they won't make the same mistake twice.

Oh how I wish you were right Shane. With the shrinking economy producers here are cherry picking those who will work for the least amount of money and using subpar editing systems to crank out shows on reduced timelines. With all the extra skilled laborers hanging around looking for work they can get it done and never learn that lesson.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

I'd take the conversation back a generation further, to linear tape based editing. Then a post house had to spend close to a million dollars on tape machines, a huge production switcher, big audio console, DVE's, and a few racks of other stuff. The editor was not a nubie, but probably spent 5 to 10 years working to reach that position.

With Avid the price dropped by a factor of 10. More accessible, but at $100k per seat, not where you start in the industry.

Now 10 years old, FCP has lowered the barrier of entry again by a another factor of 10. $10k or less will buy you a pretty good system. NOW it is a place for people to began learning the editing craft. As such the range of people who know the software spans high school students to grizzled veterans. As others have pointed out, knowing the software is the first step, not the final exam. Experience and credits in the genre are far more important that what software is being used. If I were to be the producer doing the hiring, the last thing I care about is what equipment the editor wants to use.

Unfortunately because FCS has such a low buy in, some folks perceive it to be less capable, and those that prefer it less skilled. Frankly if that is how a producer is judging his editor I would just as soon not work on that project anyway.

In the meantime it does open some new opportunities. I work with a number of folks who have their own FCP systems. Not great finishing editors perhaps, but surely capable of more readily fleshing out their story because they can use FCP. In the best of workflows, help those kind of folks get off on the right foot, then work on the polish cuts. Really a nice way to work actually.

The folks in a pinch now I think are the production facilities. If I can build a fully capable system for a few 10s of thousands of dollars and compete with a full service shop with big downtown overhead, they are at a big disadvantage. At one time having a slew of different tape formats was an advantage for them as compared to the boutiques, but obviously that is fast slipping away.

It will be interesting to see were we are in a decade. Hardware and software costs cut by another factor of 10? Kids who have been making media on their phones since the age of 5? How will we distinguish ourselves then?

-V

> I remember taking delivery of the new Meridian boards and swapping out the old NuBus (is that
>right?) boards

I never actually cut during the Meridian days. Mine was the almighty Adrenaline on PC (Yuck!) and Avid Xpress, and only for a short while before I switched over to FCP in the next room and was having races with the other editor to see who can complete the scene first. I know of a place with an active Meridian (it's hidden under dust covers though), and the workflow for getting tapeless into the machine consisted of sending footage through the server and into the machine via ethernet due to the limited computer interface.


>Then there is a guy who has been at it for years doing weddings and infomercials who is ready
>and can do an excellent job. FCS editors are as good as any as long as they have a clear workflow
>and a hunger for quality.

So if you're a producer and you wanted to make a half a mil per episode single cam hit series, you'd look for a director with a wedding and infomercial showreel and turn down Ron Howard?



www.strypesinpost.com

>How will we distinguish ourselves then?

As Shane mentioned, not by price of the gear, but by the show. People will still pay money to watch a good movie or show with their friends. Go on the streets, or on facebook or twitter. Listen to what people talk about. You notice hardly anybody talks about the show with skimpy production values, but they'll talk about the ones they can remember, and usually the stories are good and well produced. There will always be demand for good entertainment. A young couple do not buy tickets to a concert only because the tickets are cheap. The ones that do, won't be a couple for too long. Bottom line, when you create content or tell a story, people gotta like it.



www.strypesinpost.com

>$10k or less will buy you a pretty good system.

I'm not sure what you can get for 10K where you are, but where I am, I'm converting 10K USD to my currency and I can't build a decent single seat edit/finishing station with that amount. Not when you include the cards, the RAIDs, the monitors, archival/backup workflow, etc.. Anything less will give you loads of problems. The fact that you don't have as big a need to buy a tape deck today, means you save a lot.



www.strypesinpost.com

Quote
stypes
So if you're a producer and you wanted to make a half a mil per episode single cam hit series, you'd look for a director with a wedding and infomercial showreel and turn down Ron Howard?

That depends. If Ron Howard was to cross my mind then i guess that means i have the budget for that. Your choices are determined by the budgets. Give me 20mill get ron howard, give me 10 mill get Ken Burns.

What i am pointing out is the clients point of view on what he wants to spend. That is where what you can or cant do starts. You cant tell a 3million dollar company that they need to spend 1or2mil on a commercial series. They will not go for it.
-OR-
You can tell them that on just 3 commercials and state wide or regional ad buy they would spend 40 - 80k and get 'yes' in most cases.

So lets say Stryes Productions charges 150k for a regional campaign not including ad buy. Corbett Entertainment does the same for 75k (due to less overhead). Strypes closes 10 contracts in a year to a whopping total of 1.5million. Mean while Corbett closes 25 at a total of 1.875mil.

I have more chances to close than you would. I have a larger client pool. and yes i did more work for it, but that would also mean that i am getting more experience. In 2 years i will have 50 examples of my work and you will have 20. They will probably be better but thats not guaranteed as they could very well be equal to the eye of a CEO/decision maker.

To the clients that are not editors, that look at you website they see that you have done 20 really good projects. My website will have 50 examples of my productions and at least 20 will be as good as yours. Plus the multitude and variety alone would give me an upper hand in impressing the client also.

FCS has made new markets because of its cost. Its a lot easier to recoup 10k than it is 100k. Doesn't mean that broadcast studios are being disrespected nor the people working or software used. I have seen great stuff from Vegas and Premier mainly because the people using that software were good at their skill.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

>>>10K USD to my currency and I can't build a decent single seat edit/finishing station with that amount.

Fair enough. For a full on edit finish station I would 3-5 times that. My point is that to get what you would need to market yourself as a FCP editor with room to the middle market you could spend in the low $10's. That opens the market to a LOT of people.

>>>>So lets say Stryes Productions charges 150k for a regional campaign not including ad buy. Corbett Entertainment does the same for 75k (due to less overhead). Strypes closes 10 contracts in a year to a whopping total of 1.5million. Mean while Corbett closes 25 at a total of 1.875mil.

OK JC, I get your point, but there is a maximum amount of work you can do. Can you if fact sell and service 2.5 times the client base? Oh and I don't think anyone is going to look at all 50 of your projects, or even Strypes 20. Best to show your top 3. In that case the nod probably goes to the higher budget productions. As least as long as the money goes on the screen and not up the nose.

VPiccin

That is true most people look at 3-4 videos and they are done.

I have always worked based on what i could sell. I was lucky enough to meet many business owners in my area. I was doing simple party, news, entertainment stuff and i would talk about video a lot.

Top 3 sentences said as a reason for not doing video. DRUMS

1. I cant afford it.
This is because the price points they had heard quoted was always 15k and up for a commercial and more for product demos. Actually, they had enough to get what they needed. BUDGETS 1500-7k if you ask enough questions the right way.

2. Its too much trouble with all the planning and scripting.
As some of us in this thread has mentioned telling the story is MOST important. They thought that they would have some new assignment that gets in the way of their business. Solve that for them and you are closer to YES.

3. I dont want some cheesy, bad, poor produced, or low quality video.
This for a Preditor is where 10k gets fuzzy. In SD you can definitely get a good set-up for 10k ( if ya don't count the cams). but it can be done without a hitch.
In HD 10k is more like 14k.
However, if you show a client a dv filmed, video with good meaningful cuts, decent CC and graphics you are likely to get the YES for a $5k state wide commercial, And the expected result is understood throughout the production.

I saw a market that was in between and had not many people grabbing for it. So i did, for less money more times a year.

Yes, you can average about 40 clients a year with a par-time crew of 4 for production. Freelancers have to sell to make it. It ain't just waiting on a production order. At 1 point i would sell, prep, film, edit, GFX, CC'ed and was the hand they shook when closing the balance.

You can sell it and if you cant, there is always someone else would love to try for you. After All it is money.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

JC-

Sounds like you have identified a market and built a business to take advantage of it. That is great business acumen. I tip my hat to you. I wish I had better business skills, but alas my strong points are not in that area.

That budget of $1500 for a spot scare me a bit. You have crew to pay, prepro, shoot day and post. Sounds like your hourly rate is approaching the fast food server zone. But man if you are making money more power to you. One of the benefits of the barrier to entry is the ability to make money on smaller budgets.

-V

with 1500 the edit is never more than 10hrs. filming like 2.5hrs. GFX&CC 1.5hrs.

It passes QC for the companies that i deal with for broadcast. Remember i am hands on throughout, so i can shoot for a particular type of edit and light for a particular effect. Its also 12 - 16hr days.

There are at least 20 production houses like this in my market. More than than that but there are a lot of crap companies.

I respect the broadcast guys cause they know all the hot tricks, but often i feel that they have been broadcast for so long they cant get out of the box and see their market other ways. Then at times they want to mush people who have to do it with small budgets because they didn't send it to a colorist or finishing house.

If you hit specs, then you hit specs. The best end result for the budget is what your after and often the path is not as important in the freelance world.

thats all for me on this thread.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

>with 1500 the edit is never more than 10hrs. filming like 2.5hrs. GFX&CC 1.5hrs.

For how long of an end product? Broadcast TV shows are 22 min for the half hours, and 45 min for the hour longs. And editing takes 2-3 weeks for episodic (just the offline), and 5 weeks or so for movies or doc specials. What you are describing seems like a commercial...30 second spot. At that level, the commercial can cost $1500 and be done by a one man band like yourself, and look very much like a local spot, or cost a couple hundred grand, and look like a national car ad. Depends on the budget.

But that isn't what this topic is about. This is about the episodic production arena. Because "story producers" is mentioned in the first post, that is why I make this assumption. That and "post supervisor", which is typically only found on broadcast TV shows. And when people compare FCP to Avid...Avid is pretty much mainly used on TV shows and feature films (less on commercials)...so my assumption is TV shows.

That is a FAR cry from what you are talking about J. You have wondered off into local spot production territory. Corporate production territory, which is not what this started out as. We are talking about union, or non-union, editing of broadcast television episodes. How it has gone from the highly skilled person who worked their way up the ranks to finally land the spot as an editor, and who knows all the ins and outs of delivering what is required for broadcast, vs the young kid who bought FCP, edited a few short films they shot with their handycam, and now consider themselved editors, and are hired to work on TV shows, and have ZERO experience cutting for TV, and knowing what is required for that.

Things like reading broadcast spec sheets and knowing how long a commercial break to build between acts so that the show can be properly timed. Know how to not only tell a story, but make sure that a show hits the 44:15:00 mark with proper commercial blacks, integrated show graphics, and proper audio track assignments. Knowing what are appropriate audio levels to temp mix the show. Know how to prep and export audio to the sound house. Know that when you are doing a show with straight cuts, that you should keep your edits on one video track, TWO tops (and not strewn about 15 video layers like some Super Mario game with steps going up and up so you can get the mushrooms!)

People who know how to create a timeline that starts at 58:00:00 so that they show has bars and tone (and WHY the show has bars and tone), and how to make it hit the 1:00:00;00 mark for start of show. Know what slates are and what type of information they need to hold, and why.

We need assistants who know how to properly capture, name and organize footage. Know that, YES, the reel number IS important, source timecode IS important. That proper naming and organization is ESSENTIAL to an editor as it helps speed up production. Ones that know how to do a "string out," and how to build a "radio cut." Often I am at places that hire Assistants to do the rough cut, and INTERNS to capture the footage. No...the assistants capture and organize the footage...deal with the maintenance of the projects on all levels. Editors are the ones who creatively cut. Assistants might do the stringout of footage, or the RADIO edit...but that's it. Well, that's what their job requires. Any good editor will let the assistant cut scenes eventually, as a way of mentoring them. And those scenes might or might not make it to the final cut.

I have worked on too many shows that require a LOT of fixing after the "editor" was done with it. Shows that didn't have proper act breaks, so when I added them, OOPS, the show is too long! We need to lose a minute, or two. Timelines that are 15 layers of video, with clips all over the place, and all that is happening on the Canvas are straight cuts. Audio levels that range from really low (-20db) to really loud (-3db)...and lack consistancy. MP3s on the timeline that don't OMF properly to the audio mixer. Footage or other assets located on the DESKTOP and not on the media drive. Moves on stills that have blank space around them (they need to fill the screen). Editors who know how to make music edits...listen to the beat and the music properly so that it blends properly. Mixed frame rates and formats on a timeline...because the editor doesn't know that DV at 29.97 doesn't mix well with DVCPRO HD 720p 23.98. People who shot 29.97, but because they shot 24p they assumed they have 23.98 footage, so the entire timeline is 23.98, and the timebase is entirely wrong, and they weren't experienced enough to know that the footage looked bad when played back.

There is so much that people need to know about editing for broadcast. It isn't something that you can just leap into right from film school, or right from editing your own movies. This is something where you DO need to work your way up so that you learn the basics first, why things need to be done a certain way. Sure, if you edit commercials in a local or regional market you can make the transition into broadcast TV editing...because you have a basic understanding of the requirements that broadcasters require. The main issue is hiring people with zero TV experience, nor training, to assist or edit for TV. Yes, assistants need to start somewhere, which is why places need to hire an editor who IS experienced to train them in what to do. But often the assistant is hired before the editor, does the work for 2-3 weeks, THEN the editor comes on and is faced with a mess.

I tell you, this latest job I am on, a union job, is a breath of fresh air. Editors and assistants who are not only competent, but HIGHLY skilled at what they do. I can ask them "can you prep this for OMF and get this over to the audio house" and they know exactly what I mean. And shows are to time.


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Ahh, the great Shane reading deeper to see into our thoughts. Yes you are right. I am talking about 1min or less.
The infomercials (15-30min) have just started coming in. My first one did not have the proper breaks for the breaks, So they sent me a sheet to read up on how to set act breaks for commercial time. I just started getting into that stuff.
Most of my docs were commercial free plays (30m - 1.5hr), I didn't have to worry about 2.2m breaks and so on. My long form and episode skills are not quite there yet as i have not been in the environment much.

This is what you can not get from Freelance. I totally agree. I would say this is the last level of learning before you can be called well versed.

I will say this though, The BBC uses FCP and so does a lot of TV show producers like 24, CSI, and Scare Tactics. Maybe FCP is not near the norm that AVID is in Broadcast but Its getting there.

As a convicted high jacker, I digress. Bring on the water boarding.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

>This is what you can not get from Freelance.

What can't I get from freelance? How to edit corporate video? How to edit an infomercial? Editing feature docs without worrying about commercial breaks? Sorry, but us freelancers do that too.


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You cant get the understanding of the broadcast workflow. You cant get the understand of why you need this to be in this particular codec instead of a substitute. I have never had anyone ask for anything more particular than sd or hd in my contracts. I would guess that this is something i cant get until it happens or i am in a broadcast production chain.

I have never heard of OMF as something to be ready for. I didn't do dailies until recently. My next infomercial is the 1st that i will have to edit so that the commercials fall into a gap that does not interrupt the information. I don't understand the reason for offline and online. Everything i do i would consider online.
Reasons for starting at 58:00:00 for bars and tone allude me cause all i have to do is the standard tone /slate / black in 10seconds to delivery to the cable companies.

I bought your organization dvd so i think my organization is already good enough for a complete stranger to find and continue the edit. My edit notes are fairly decent.

But the longer form workflow in a broadcast environment is just now rising to my knee. I am sure i will get it as i run into things along the way. I don't think these things are terribly hard to understand when its something you have to do regularly. In Most cases its not knowing what to do, its having the diligence to do it, once it is explained.

I personally am not intimidated by what the broadcast world has in store for me. I have been at this long enough to have things explained and sometimes re-questioned until i got it. Which is easy when face to face with somebody who is more experienced.

But there also are assistants who can not edit even after 3years in. their editor is too busy to groom them for anything other than support task. The Freelance world is more attractive because you can go with your flow more. Its FREE and VIBEY-like. I love it and it would take a pretty serious offer to move me away from freedom to the chain.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

To learn all of this stuff it would be wise to work at a post facility that does it. You will have to go in as an assistant, but that's the price you have to pay. Or hire someone to teach you why you need this and that.

And there are people who are professional assistant editors. They don't have the knack to edit, and know it. They just like to be professional assistants. Happens all the time here.

And the offline/online workflow is a rarity now. FCP not only caused this, but tapeless formats as well. And REALLY cheap drive costs.


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Quote

And the offline/online workflow is a rarity now.

Depends. In commercial post ? as in TV commercials ? the overwhelming majority of jobs still use a traditional offline/online workflow, and for good (and obvious) reason. The offline editor and the finishing editor/visual effects artist are two entirely different jobs.

True...separation of offline (creative) vs the online (finishing/colorist) editor still exists in MANY markets. I was referring to the offline/online workflow of low res files for editing, then recapture as full res.

No, the offline edit/online finish is still very well in place. I play both sides of that coin.


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J. Corbett wrote:

I will say this though, The BBC uses FCP and so does a lot of TV show producers like 24, CSI, and Scare Tactics. Maybe FCP is not near the norm that AVID is in Broadcast but Its getting there.

I posted the original post and ironically I was actually an editor for a long time on one of the shows mentioned above. No third monitor, editing in a makeshift closet with headphones that I shared with three other people, low rate, flat rate without overtime and tons of interns f@cking sh@t up and tripping at every step. Way to go FCP you really are making some inroads into broadcast television. I can't wait until you make your way onto even more productions so I can work like that ALL the time!

I don't mean to be sarcastic but seriously ...

Avid jobs have better working conditions all around and if you are used to that you want it to stay that way. Something special about being in an environment that protects you from the barbarians at the gate and the people who will work for peanuts on a flat rate without overtime ruining the industry for everyone else. Something nice about sitting in front of a fifty thousand dollar symphony and feeling like you are worth it. $700.00 per day rate. Lunches paid for. A room with four walls that is 20x20 that belongs to you and only you and doesn't have cheap furniture. Air condition that works. A fully stocked kitchen and free red bull ( the big ones, not the small ones ). Not working with headphones. Overtime after ten hours. Doubletime on weekends and a guy that comes around every Friday to wash your car ( Chainsaw Post ). It feels like a REAL JOB.

So my question for J. Corbett with all due respect, when you say maybe FCP is not near the norm that AVID is in Broadcast but Its getting there. Mr. Corbett, is this a good thing? Sometimes it's about more than software. It's about quality of life.

Talk about culture... I have an Avid water bottle, an Avid mousepad, and an Avid lanyard. Don't have any FCP ones. Perhaps you're right (Apple, take note, and not just the Apple stickers. They don't mean as much). I miss having a side table for drinks and snacks, as I have this dreadful feeling about putting my drink on my actual work desk. My usual work desk is random. I can have an audio mixer next to me, or I could be expected to fiddle around the back of the speaker hoping I find the volume knob (one good thing about having the audio faders built into FCP), but you do have pretty nice suites here and there. Can't say much about the furnishing, as I have yet to see $20K rugs, chandeliers, and a nice Picasso dangling on the walls.

As I mentioned, you have more small houses than you have big ones. So you have more FCP suites than Avid ones for the simple fact it's cheaper. Perhaps it does spawn a certain kind of mindset, kinda like Smoke/Flame users vs AE users. But frankly, I see FCP and Avid as tools. FCP does have an active community, and the Avid community used to be more snobbish. I can't say we aren't, as we have seen a lot of "I have 20 dollars, how do i get my video to look like film" type of posts, so sometimes we do seem a bit snobbish or elitist.



www.strypesinpost.com

Damn Strypes, no you didn't just make me edit my post. For realzz, I am a pretty simple man. It just all goes down hill when I walk in and I don't have that fancy ergonomic chair. This has turned into a silly rant. My apologies. I will not post again until I have a substantive question about software.

Cheers.

This thread is getting kind of goofy. Not sure what people you are hanging out with Ian, but it sounds like not a lot of fun. Yeah, there are a lot of ignorant folks out there many of whom are fanboys only, both for Avid and FCP, but the majority and I mean the MAJORITY of editors don't really care. Until they are forced to switch. Then they care. Then they rant. Moral is, don't care.

As to Avid shops having better working conditions than the other, nonsense. That's maybe your experience. Union rates are not determined on what tool you use as well you know. And no matter what tool you use, you won't be using it for long unless you can cut it. No pun intended.

I get what you mean, Ian. The problem isn't FCP related. It's more to do with houses slashing budgets and the folks who want to run their business on a shoestring. When that happens, they go for the cheaper options.

I've seen cheap IKEA work desks that are bending from the weight of the monitors, and chairs that you can't rest your back against. I've seen 4 workstations lined up in a row, like a low grade telemarketing office...

But that isn't all the FCP houses, in fact, those are the budget basement operations (usually FCP, or even PP/AE suites, hardly Avid, as Avids were a lot more expensive) and if you were worth your bacon, you'll avoid them. Anyone who builds an edit suite, knows that the only way to harness creativity, is to have a good comfortable environment where the staff does not feel stifled.



www.strypesinpost.com

I have worked in a broad ranges of conditions. The worst is on gear sitting on empty shipping boxes in a tent. The best, a plush, dim, quite room with all the best toys, and a plethora of client services people offering delicious tidbits on crystal plates.

I have been creative in both.

Look budget is a consideration. Some projects just won't get done if you have to factor a Sushi chef into the mix. I would always rather work in plush post house. Unfortunately not every project I find interesting has that budget.

As for the perpetual Avid/FCP/Premiere/Whatever battle. My favorite system is the one that I used yesterday. My hands know where the buttons are and I can think about picture and sound. Like Michael said, the hate is more about switching systems than the features of any particular device.

Best laugh I have had all day...I needed this

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.