Effect questions.

Derek:

Also to add to what I just said above I don't always use transition effects "off the shelf drag to cut" style, I try to create transitions that won't be seen in other shows by other editors and I find that using avx plugin effect filters or segment effects as the transitions ( things never meant to be a transition ) placed above the cut straddling as one piece, usually keyframing something funky at the middle keyframe is usually the way to go for me. Based upon your suggestion I could just create effect templates, I do know how to do that, and just create an A template and a B template per effect or an In and and Out template foreach effect, because you can stack as many filters on a clip as you want? Is this correct?

Strypes:

Thanks for the text effect based solution. Sounds as if this is a way to build a three or four effect template to just copy attributes as opposed to dropping on a crap load of templates.

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So what happens if you got your A and B sides all happy with the appropriate transitions ( filters ) copy and pasted on and you dual roller trim the start of one side or the end of another does the duration or speed of the effect change? Are the keyframes fixed or elastic? Can you set them to be fixed or elastic? Meaning it would be nice to if I needed after all of that copy and pasting of attributes or dropping templates on that if I wanted to change the duration of the effect I could just do it with a trim, Do-able? that would be an elastic keyframe in my mind.

The applied distance of the keyframes will be relative to the length of the clip (crap this sounds like a math lesson), so you need to blade both the outgoing and incoming clip. Eg. if the length of your text object is 10 frames, and the distance between both effect keyframes on that object lasts all 10 frames (first keyframe at beginning and next keyframe at the end), when you paste the filters onto your clip, the keyframe positions will be at the start and end of your clip. So basically you blade both the outgoing and incoming ends of the clips for the transition. My apologies earlier.


If you want to adjust the keyframes, this is roughly how you do it. The only thing is that if you have 4 keyframes at that position, you need to click and drag 4 times- once for each keyframe.

[strypesinpost.com]



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With regards to nests, it is okay to nest, especially for effects, because sometimes you have to. But I try to minimize it as much as I can. You won't be able to grade individual layers of a composite in Color anyway.

The big problem with nesting happens to many people on their first long form project (and I know of quite a few cases). They will edit everything in scenes, then assemble everything in one big timeline full of nests, then they'll blade and trim in that timeline, and after a while, everything falls apart.



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Thanks man, it seems like math but it's only because you are explaining it. You know when you are doing it it's just instinctual. It's weird when I try to explain things to assistants that seem so easy when I'm doing it and then I realize it's actually pretty complicated when you break it all down. In terms of layers in a nest I guess I will have to talk to some apple color folks about what is best in terms of their workflow and what they expect to receive. I am totally the guy that would make their life miserable. What I read in this thread is very helpful but it does no good if you make hell for the guy at the end of the chain.

Thanks.

For nests (aka composites), you have 2 routes. One is to do the composites and the color correction before sending into Color, basically exporting a self contained QT movie for the nested section (or you can bypass Color for the composite sequences), the other is to get the footage through Color then send it out for effects.

Yes. It is very important that you discuss with the online guys and get the workflow sorted out early. And if you are trying something you are not familiar with, run some tests. Every project is different and they can be very different in terms of workflow.

If you had a choice of Motion and After Effects, I would go for After Effects, and it will also be easier for your graphics guy to take over an AE project than a Motion project. Motion is good because you have lots of templates and presets, so you can whip out something generic very quickly (like a background).



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Strypes;

A few posts back you said;

The applied distance of the keyframes will be relative to the length of the clip (crap this sounds like a math lesson), so you need to blade both the outgoing and incoming clip. Eg. if the length of your text object is 10 frames, and the distance between both effect keyframes on that object lasts all 10 frames (first keyframe at beginning and next keyframe at the end), when you paste the filters onto your clip, the keyframe positions will be at the start and end of your clip. So basically you blade both the outgoing and incoming ends of the clips for the transition. My apologies earlier.


If you want to adjust the keyframes, this is roughly how you do it. The only thing is that if you have 4 keyframes at that position, you need to click and drag 4 times- once for each keyframe.

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So is their anyway to make the keyframes fixed as opposed to elastic as a choice on a per effect basis? I know that is an option in other programs.

Love your text effect method but let's say I'm not using a template and building something from scratch.

Let's say I use the method of blading 5 frames back and forward from the cut and have say a glow ramp up on the A side and ramp down on the B side and I then decide I want to add a motion blur to it but I wanted that to be twenty frames but the glow to stay ten. If I trimmed the bladed area 5 frames back on the A side and 5 frames forward on the B Side to make room for this new filter to be utilized at twenty frames I would be changing my duration of the glow if it is elastic but not changing the duration if it is fixed. Fixed would be ideal so I wouldn't have to retweak the glow.

>and I then decide I want to add a motion blur to it but I wanted that to be twenty frames but the
>glow to stay ten

Just roll the cut back with the roll tool (or you can select the cut point and type in the amount of frames you want to shift the cut backwards or forwards). The cuts are independent of of keyframe positions, the keyframes can be manipulated in the viewer window or in the timeline.



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Whoa - there's a way to drag more than one keyframe? I can't replicate what you're talking about here...

"If you hit option T for toggle clip keyframes, you can drag the keyframes around (a little clunky for this option) and if you hold shift while dragging, you drag all the keyframes on the clip."

When I click the keyframe in the timeline and drag (with shift or without), it only makes a new keyframe where I release the click. What am I missing?

> it only makes a new keyframe where I release the click.

It's not a new keyframe. If you're shifting the keyframes of the filters and you have a whole bunch of them at that point, you'll be shifting the keyframes one at a time.

>if you hold shift while dragging

Sorry, got that mixed up. Don't hold shift. Move your cursor slightly to the left or right of a keyframe, basically to a position on the green band where there isn't a keyframe, you'll notice that the cursor icon changes to a pair of thin vertical lines with two arrows pointing to either side. When that happens, click and drag, and you'll shift all the keyframes on that clip simultaneously.



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Ah, the cuts are independent of the keyframes. That's good to know. In Avid they move with the trim unless you set them to fixed. Good to know.

Holy smokes! I never knew this trick. Thanks!

>In Avid they move with the trim unless you set them to fixed.

There's no toggle for that in FCP.



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I wrote about the keyframe thing here:

[strypesinpost.com]



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Asymmetrical trimming from Larry Jordan:

[www.larryjordan.biz]



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