File-Based Workflows and Clip/Bin Management - need some tips

Been shooting pretty much everything in file-based formats recently, and feel like I may have some room to learn clip management so my edits are easier to keep track of/manage. All the tutorials I've seen, especially dealing with DSLR video, just deal with getting things up to the point where I start having questions.

Here's a typical scenario, I'm looking for some help:

-Shoot on 5d, record audio on a H4n. Get them into proper formats, import to FCP. Use Pluraleyes to sync them up, and now I have several long clips on the timeline.

First question - when working in a tape-based workflow, I'd break up clips while digitizing. They would get separated/logged in that process quite easily. With the file based workflow, let's say I have a 15 minute clip from an interview that includes 5 different questions. How do I go from that 15minute file on the timeline to 5 independent clips that are each labeled appropriately in a bin? If I chop them up on the timeline, then drag them to the bin, FCP (6) creates a master clip with the first one and then the others are linked to that one. Do I just create master clips for every clip on the timeline?

This is surely a basic question that I simply haven't seen addressed, and one that is certainly dealt with by other editors better than I currently do. I know in many situations, we compensate for lack of knowledge by coming up with workarounds--I'm guilty of that. But for this project, I'd like to start doing things "right". Or at least more right.

Any tips?

> With the file based workflow, let's say I have a 15 minute clip from an interview that includes
> 5 different questions. How do I go from that 15minute file on the timeline to 5 independent c
> clips that are each labeled appropriately in a bin?

You don't mess with the original master clip. This is where you subclip. Import the whole clip as-is, then subclip it in the Viewer. You'd want to do the syncing before you do so, of course.


www.derekmok.com

eureka! that's it!

thanks, Derek, much appreciated, and this is going to result in (slightly) less hair-pulling when I need to track down that one clip that I KNOW I had at some point during an edit session.

If any of you other folks have other tips and tricks for file-based workflows, I'd sure appreciate them, and I'm sure there'd be others that would appreciate them as well...

derek, I spoke too soon...

OK, here's what I've got:

v1 - 5d video
a1, a2 - synced audio from H4n linked to v1 and in stereo
I've also right clicked on the overall (i.e. the 15 minute clip) and selected "make independent clip"

Chop up the main clip on the timeline, open the shorter sections of the clip in Viewer, it plays fine. Subclip it (command-U), a subclip shows up in the Browser. I open the subclip up in the viewer, and video is there, but audio is not there. The subclip shows as having 1v, 2a in the browser, but no waveform and no sound during playback.

UPDATE: it looks like the audio is there, but it's not in sync with video. So...the subclip opens up in the viewer, the video plays, but I have to scrub way ahead to get the audio that goes with the clip. So, it appears that everything is there, but for some reason the audio and video tracks are getting way out of sync when I subclip them. Maybe there's a setting I've got incorrect somewhere, or have done something incorrect in the process.

I remember Nick once mentioning about adding a reel name before you subclip to prevent sync issues.



www.strypesinpost.com

strypes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember Nick once mentioning about adding a
> reel name before you subclip to prevent sync
> issues.


BINGO! Thanks, strypes!

I need to practice more with subclip workflows. I recently onlined a documentary-style industrial that was as you describe: shot tapeless, with long interview takes. Before I got there, the media had all been logged and sync'd, but in several different ways. Some of the two-camera stuff was arranged as multiclips with location sound on A2 and guide track on A1. (Except for the takes that had guide track on A2 and location sound on A1 for no reason I ever discerned.) Some of the stuff was subclipped, with and without sync'd-and-link'd location sound. Some of the shots were just long Quicktimes that had been edited straight into the timeline. I wouldn't characterize it as a mess, exactly ? I was able to navigate around okay, after some study ? but it's not how I would've done it.

One of the struggles I had was with figuring out how to match-frame back from a subclip to the master clip. The subclips were all edited way too tight, without usable handles, so I frequently wanted to match back to the master clip in order to extend an edit point, but since I rarely use subclips myself, I didn't remember how. I know it's possible ? a friend pointed me to the right page in the manual ? but it's not a technique that I've got committed to muscle memory yet.

My preferred method ? like unicorns-and-rainbows stuff here ? for dealing with documentary-type material is to transfer all the reels intact, sync location sound, put a TCR on top and send the result out for transcription. Once it comes back, I have a timecoded transcript, so it's trivially easy to navigate around those twelve-minute-or-whatever clips in the viewer. All the edits on my timeline match directly back to one of the original camera reels, so keeping a mental map of where all my shots are is pretty simple.

This might not be the best way to do it. I freely admit that I've got less actual hands-on experience than a lot of the guys here. But it's where I am right now. I need to experiment some more and see if other workflows suit me better.

>My preferred method ? like unicorns-and-rainbows stuff here ? for dealing with documentary-type
>material is to transfer all the reels intact, sync location sound, put a TCR on top and send the result out
>for transcription.

What I used to do was to pop them in a timeline, export a quicktime/DVD with timecode burn in that references the timecode on the sequence, then do a sequence to sequence edit when the transcript comes back.



www.strypesinpost.com

A lot of the work I do from file based source at the moment is short interview pieces. For these, I just drop the whole I/V in the timeline, sync the proper sound under that, and cut right in the timeline, knocking out what I don't need as I go. I would never use this method for traditional work, but, horses for courses. It's the fastest, easiest method for the job.

Jude, that's how I've been working on file-based workflows up til now. It has worked fine for me, up until the producer asks "didn't we have a clip where he said X" or " can you find the 3rd take of question number 10?". It's because of those questions that I wanted to change how I work, to make things easier on the front end, and then also easier on the back end when having to hunt for something that the producer "KNOWS" that we got during the interview.

The multi-coloured markers in FCP7 are very useful for interviews. I now use the default red for points that need quick marking (eg. temporary timeline snaps, sync marks), and I assign different colours to "good takes" and interview bites. If the soundbite is important enough, I type it into the marker name. Being able to fly from point to point with SHIFT-Up/Down is a huge boon.


www.derekmok.com

Clay, that's funny, I actually originally wrote in my previous post that I was lucky though, because I wasn't at the mercy of someone coming in and wanting to make changes to the edit after the fact, but I deleted it as extraneous info. But you're right. Matching back and re-syncing would be a pain with this method. It's only really good if you can know for sure you're not going to use something.

"having to hunt for something that the producer "KNOWS" that we got during the interview."

hey, Clay.

i work mainly in longform,
so i need to be pretty organised, and maintain a system whereby i can backtrack in case of errors, etc.

i sync in the timeline, THEN link the pic & audio, and create a new master clip to work with, multiclip if i need to.
but that's not real why i wrote.

on the last couple of pictures i had lots and lots of stuff that i had to cull, and reduce to a more manageable amount.

i love working in the timeline, so i'd lay out a whole scene's worth of rushes in a timeline
then go though it marking up the sections i liked,
then i'd copy that section up to the track above where my rushes where.

my system for this:
i used in/outs to define the part i liked, (which i can preview with Shift+\ "play in-to-out"
then
Shift i (go to in)
copy/ paste (Apple C, Apple V)
open in Viewer (return)
SUPERIMPOSE (F12)

i have this as a macro


ANYWAY (getting to the point)
this gives me a timeline of my rushes complete with my first-choice selections sitting on V2.

i select these, place my playhead after the end of the rushes, and drag the selection into the Canvas "Overwrite" window,
which puts all the selected bits at the end of the timeline,
ready for me to muck in and start editing.

it ALSO means that i can VERY EASILY go back to the rushes timeline and see what i've picked and what i haven't.


hope that helps.
nick

Nick Meyers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> my system for this:
> i used in/outs to define the part i liked, (which
> i can preview with Shift+\ "play in-to-out"
> then
> Shift i (go to in)
> copy/ paste (Apple C, Apple V)
> open in Viewer (return)
> SUPERIMPOSE (F12)
>

Neat trick, thanks.

For clarity, having tried out this workflow, it is limited to clips only - it doesn't work for multiple clips (eg double sound that hasn't been merged, or clips that have edits).

I tried a workaround with nests - but I can't seem to apple-F12 the nest easily, and you end up with a timeline and browser full of nests. The only way I could get it to work was:

Mark in/outs
Shift i (go to in)
Copy
Adjust auto selects to V2 A3/4 (or wherever)
Paste
Adjust auto selects to V1 A1/2

Which is still workable. What macro programme are you using?

Hi, Tevora

glad you've found the workflow useful.

and yes, you are right about it not being for anything other than very simple single, linked clips.
i hadn't though of the situations you mentioned.
(i probably wouldn't start picking selects until my rushes were all properly synced and linked!)


i'm using QuicKeys.
there are cheaper ones around, but that's the one i bought way back, and it's working for me.


all the best,
nick

When I'm shooting file-based formats, I've found it's a fairly common to be asked by the producer to turn the camera off and on during the questions. ( A quick blip, obviously) It's a bit of a PITA, especially if you're trying to re-frame at the same time, but even every second or third question is usually acceptable.

Obviously no help with footage that's been shot, but a good conversation to have with the producer for next time...

randy