FCP 7.0.3 frequent crashes

Tom,

I personally haven't run into crashes from large stills for a couple of years, but I still get a crash or two a day in a 10-12 hour edit session.

I've reinstalled FCS, even got a new FCS 3 because of poor performance from the Smoothcam filter, which we thought might be a defective program. Turns out that Smoothcam continues not to work. It was great in the pre FCP 7 versions, but once FCP 7 came along it has not worked. Apple has been able to recreate the problem and claim they're working on it, though I haven't heard anything back from them for a couple of weeks.

thx...jw

I'd be curious to know if my experience is out of the ordinary. Are most users crash once or twice a day? Say it isn't so?

All the best,

Tom

Nope I rarely crash - the last time was because my system disk developed a fault - nothing to do with FCP...

...and I run 100s of plugins and 100s of fonts!



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

The only system I know of that crashes a fair bit is an old Mac Mini running OSX Server with less than 2GB free on the system drive. All the others I know might crash, say, once or twice a year, or less.

Well, that's interesting because I have a dual quad core 2.3 GHZ MacPro with an Xserve raid as a video drive 10 gigs of ram and it crashes once or twice a day. Particularly toward the end of an edit for a 1 hr HD program. I generally edit with XDCAM EX footage (1080/60i HQ VBR) on a ProRes HQ timeline or sometimes I'll use the XDCAM EX timeline with renders in ProRes. Doesn't seem to matter either way. These are relatively simple shows with moents of 5 or 6 layers, but general one with dissolves and some CC from the 3way CC.

thx...jw

Just today I was running XDCAM, EX 1, 3 and various other transcoded flavours of footage in a Pro Res timeline on a pre-intel dual core G5 running FCP 6 something. It's clunky, but it certainly doesn't crash all the time.

Has your machine always behaved like this? Or has it changed over time?

It started with FCP 7. Never ran into this before that. Also smoothcam issues began with 7. I did a 5 hour series from Africa right before I switched to 7 and smoothed at least a hundred shots and all was terrific. Switched to 7 and it hasn't worked since. Apple claims they're looking into it, but it's been a couple of weeks since I last heard from them.

Thx...jw

My experience is similar to jw's. Started with 7, (and w/ using hd footage on the new MacPro). I could maybe live with crashing once or twice a day, but I'm up to 3-4, no exaggeration. On my prior project I was sending little notes to Apple every time it crashed --project stopped at #104!

Used to edit sd on a non intel laptop and never crashed once. And what I was saying about the photo files is: I know when it's photo files that make it crash, but that's easy to spot and fix. This problem is not photos.

Anymore information on the system setups you guys are running?



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Leopard OS (10.5.8), MacPro 2x2.93Ghz Quad Core Intel Zeon, 16 GB Ram, Sonnet SATA card, BM Intensity Pro Card, ATI Radeon HD 4870. Yamaha Mixer. External mic for VO.

I use the BM card to watch the show on a Vizio 42", while also watching on two Planar work LCD monitors.

On the last show, I used individual FW drives, on this one a SATA raid--no difference in the number of crashes.

Projects are under 100mb, usually only one project open. All media, renders, thumbnails on external drive (s).

Don't use MacPro for any other purpose, other than project-related email, web browse, & word/excel docs.

Shows are long-form docs, so I can have a dozen hour-plus sequences, usually with 3 or 4 open at any time. 8-10 audio tracks, 4-6 video. Most frequent fx are dissolves, color correct, motion.

Footage is a mix, but mainly ex3, edit base 23.98, renders set to ProRes.

no AE, use FCP to move on photos.

and crashes always happen when attempting to drag through the timeline.

I have a McPro 3GHZ dual quad Core Intel Zeon, 10 GB ram, OSX 10.6.5, FCP 7.0.3, Dual Fiber channel Video drive, which is a 2.5TB Xserve Raid. QT is 10.0 and a Kona 3 card. Graphics card is a new NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT which was just replaced by Apple, just to see if that may be the cause of the problems.

Most of the crashes occur scrubbing through the timeline, but also during other operations.

This computer is dedicated to editing, but does have email and MS Office installed.

jw

Just to get a few things out of the way - do you have the crash reports you can upload somewhere? Unless you've tested the crashes already with Crash Tester in the FCS Maintenance Pack? What did it say?

Also - have you tested for corrupt fonts? Open Fontbook and validate all your fonts. Remove any once with major issues and disable those with minor.

Do you both have Motion projects on the timeline? Scrub back and forth over them lots if you do to make sure its not them causing the issue.

Mike - have you tried using an actual ProRes timeline instead of an XDCAM EX (with render to PR) like JW do you have the same issue?

JW are you running two hi-res monitors @1920x1200 off the 8800 and using GPU accelerated FX/filters?

...likewise Mike on the 4870 with two Planar Monitors?

What are your user prefs, Memory & Cache, et al in System settings?

I assume you both have the latest drivers and firmware for all your gear?

Do you have any third party CODECs installed or Perian?

Is FCP just quitting (no report) or is it actually crashing?

Can you replicate the crash by going over the same part of the sequence(s) or doing the same function(s) each time?



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Both of these sound like drive related issues. Media not being delivered promptly, like when called up from a sleeping drive that doesn't respond quickly enough.

All the best,

Tom

Tom Wolsky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Both of these sound like drive related issues.
> Media not being delivered promptly, like when
> called up from a sleeping drive that doesn't
> respond quickly enough.

(I've been following the thread out of curiosity. Thanks to everyone.)

Tom, are you suggesting that this could be caused by an improper Energy Saver setting in System Preferences ( "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible" )? That setting should be "off" on an editing system, right?


-Dave

No. Energy Saver only effects the system drive. It won't effect any externals.

All the best,

Tom

Tom Wolsky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No. Energy Saver only effects the system drive. It
> won't effect any externals.

But, in a Mac Pro, wouldn't that setting also affect all internal drives (in the 4 bays)?


-Dave

Don't know if that applies to systems using FiberChannel and SATA cards.

All the best,

Tom

Worth a mention though - turning it off is a good idea anyway.

Guys can you test the speed of your HDDs?

Use the AJA system test: [www.aja.com]

Or if you have it Mike - use the BM Speed Disk Test.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

I don't have the crash logs anymore since this was a couple weeks ago.

The program dows crash with the accompanying Apple crash report.

Checked Fonts...had 38 with minor problems which I shut down.

Disk Speeds are good write 340.2 MB/s, read 282.3 MB/S.

Machine is set to never sleep.

I only had QT movies exported from motion on the timeline.

Running two Samsung computer monitors 1280 x 1040, & monitor video through the Kona Card into 26" Panasonic LCD & Panasonic 42" Plasma.

Not sure where to check the GPU accelerated FX/filters?

Crashes never seem to happen in the same place nor can be replicated except by the scrubbing action which seems to be the only consistent action that will cause a crash.

I'm starting a new one hour show today and will pay close attention and also capture the crash reports.

This will be on a ProRes Timeline sinces it's only going to DVD, unless someone wants me to try something different.

Thanks to everyone for the insight/questions and help.

jw

OK, New 1 hour show on a Pro Res timeline with renders set to prores. I put down 6 short pieces of VO, one 12 second open shot and when I started to drag a second 25 second clip from the viewer to the timeline I crashed.

The crash analyzer tells me the log suggests FCP was overloaded:

This is the thread from this occurance:
0 com.apple.AppleVADriver 0x42a50f93 AVAGetRendererInfo + 129635
1 com.apple.AppleVADriver 0x42a65719 AVAGetRendererInfo + 213481
2 com.apple.AppleVADriver 0x42a35de5 AVAGetRendererInfo + 18613
3 com.apple.AppleVADriver 0x42a327e6 AVAGetRendererInfo + 4790
4 com.apple.AppleVADriver 0x42a38bb5 AVAGetRendererInfo + 30341
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x93d0785d _pthread_start + 345
6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x93d076e2 thread_start + 34

this is the info from the second window:
This crash log suggests that Final Cut Pro was overloaded at the time of the crash. This can occur if your project is overly complex, has multiple Motion project layers or is using MPEG-based media (HDV, H.264, MPEG-2, XDCAM, AVCHD), particularly if you are using filters with such media.
MPEG Media

This crash appears to have been caused by MPEG media (or MPEG-derived media such as XDCAM, HDV or H.264) in the timeline. MPEG-based media is not recommended for editing in Final Cut Pro.
Suggested Actions

Set the codec of your sequence to ProRes in Sequence Settings.
Alternatively, and for best results, transcode any HDV, MPEG-2, XDCAM, AVCHD, H.264 or other long-GOP media into an editing-friendly format such as ProRes or Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC).
More Information

To improve the stability of your system, create a less complex "lite" version of your project, export embedded Motion projects as QuickTime movies and if you are using MPEG-based media such as H.264, HDV and XDCAM, set your sequence codec to ProRes or convert the media to the ProRes codec.
Relevant Line

0 com.apple.AppleVADriver 0x42a50f93 AVAGetRendererInfo + 129635

This new program is a continuation of the Discoveries...Vietnam series using the same original media files, so since I just started this edit I'm going to reimport through XDCAM transfer all the clips I need for this third show just to see if maybe there were corrupt clips from those I used in the previous two programs. This is starting as fresh as I possibly can.

The clips I used before were created in the field so who knows what problems that may have created, though in a 5 hour Africa series we edited last year that issue never came up and all those clips were done in the field.

thx...jw

So maybe transcoding to Prores on import would make your journey smoother? I don't have a lot of complex filters or composition on the XDCAM stuff I'm cutting. Also, those Motion files can be a bugger in the FCP timeline.

Whenever I cut with 5D stuff I transcode to prores cause the performance of anything over a couple of minutes long with filters on just gets unbearable.

That's certainly an option, but in the past everything has worked pretty well and we're talking about a lot of video. Africa was 150 hours, Vietnam is 45-50 hours and I try to use XDCAM transfer on location so I'm not stuck with doing this in the edit room.

After my unceremonious crash earlier today. I did re-import my video for this show and I also put it on an XDCAM EX 1080/60i timeline with renders in prores. So far everything is working the way it should. Granted I've only put down 50 seconds of video, but there are sections with 5 or 6 layers, so that's good.

Generally I export my motion files to a QT movie, then put them on the timeline...at least for long form shows. It's an extra step, but worth it for the piece of mind and I have the motion file in my browser if I need to open it to make a change. Short form I use the motion file and it's fine.

Thx...jw

I'm about 20 minutes into this show and working in a separate timeline on a 10 minute segment to add to the 20 minutes I have finished. I cut a piece of video that was covering some sot and moved it forward in the timeline a minute or so, by dragging it forward when the crash occurred.

Below is the info from the Crash Analyzer. I re-opend the project and made the exact same move and there was no crash. This is an XDCAM EX 1080/60i timeline with pro res renders.

This is the first crash of the day, so that 6 hours without badness happening.

thx...jw

This crash log suggests that Final Cut Pro was overloaded at the time of the crash. This can occur if your project is overly complex, has multiple Motion project layers or is using MPEG-based media (HDV, H.264, MPEG-2, XDCAM, AVCHD), particularly if you are using filters with such media.
MPEG Media

This crash appears to have been caused by MPEG media (or MPEG-derived media such as XDCAM, HDV or H.264) in the timeline. MPEG-based media is not recommended for editing in Final Cut Pro.
Suggested Actions

Set the codec of your sequence to ProRes in Sequence Settings.
Alternatively, and for best results, transcode any HDV, MPEG-2, XDCAM, AVCHD, H.264 or other long-GOP media into an editing-friendly format such as ProRes or Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC).
More Information

To improve the stability of your system, create a less complex "lite" version of your project, export embedded Motion projects as QuickTime movies and if you are using MPEG-based media such as H.264, HDV and XDCAM, set your sequence codec to ProRes or convert the media to the ProRes codec.
Relevant Line

0 com.apple.AppleVADriver 0x31e40f93 AVAGetRendererInfo + 129635

So, it seems like the solution might be to convert to ProRes on import, since that's what's being flagged all the time as the problem. Be interesting to see if it solves your crashing.

Seems like that may be the next thing to try though why has this become a problem when I switched to FCP 7? Never ran into this before that and was using the same media and timelines.

The other issue that started with FCP 7 was that smoothcam became worthless. Two significant issues that were not there before FCP 7 arrived. Granted the issue of motion files on the timeline causing crashes was there and has been more or less solved now and there are some excellent improvements in FCP 7.

Since 2000 when we first started editing HD in FCP there have been great strides forward, so we can be confident/hopeful the next version will be better.

Thx...jw

Regarding converting files to ProRes. I may just be missing it, but the only way I can see to do that is to take all my video files Thru sony's log & Transfer program, then into compressor and do the conversion there. Log & Transfer will not give me the option of capturing in ProRes on my laptop, nor even on my MacPro with the Kona 3 card when I select the capture preset for ProRes in the Log & Capture window, which I believe is only for tape based video, Log & Transfer still outputs the native XDCAM EX files. I don't see any way to change the output of Log & Transfer. Any suggestions?

thx...jw

No you can't L&T XDCAM EX straight to ProRes. You need to wrap it in a QT wrapper, then convert it later. Frankly, I don't like XDCAM EX. I find it harder to pull a key on XDCAM EX than on DvcproHD. It's a shame there isn't sufficient competition with cameras that use I-frame only codecs in that price range.

Overall, I never had much issues with it, aside from the frame skipping when I'm trying to listen to an interview at 2x, as well as bloated exporting times. But I'm not heavy on effects, and I usually transcode the moment I can. Editing long GOP isn't a viable workflow especially if you are dealing with a long form project that is time critical or will take a while to deliver. I have heard of issues where it causes FCP to crash.

I had a glitch when I was editing something in HDV. I transcoded to ProRes, and there was that glitch, so I went back to the HDV transcodes, and I was able to render to ProRes in the timeline, but as the project dragged on, it was erratic, because it would show up every now and then.. Bah. I hate long GOP.



www.strypesinpost.com

I'm undecided about the format. When I first started using the format with FCP6 something, I used a proRes timeline and had no problems. All of this started, along with the smoothcam issue when I switched to FCP 7. I'm also a little surprised no one has weighed in on the smoothcam issue.

Re keying, I usually record HDSDI out of the EX-3 to a NanoFlash at 100mbs, so I haven't tried keying with the EX video. With a lot of the work we do, I really like the shape & form of the EX-3 and would rather not either go through the agony (time) of converting all the EX video to ProRes and I'd also rather not have the NanoFlash on the camera. It also takes a lot longer to transfer the NanoFlash to a hard drive when in the field.

Oh well...my problem...no whining...I'll deal with it until a new FCS comes out.

Thx...jw