AVDHC mts files skip frames once transcoded to PRORES 422

Hi everyone and all,

i'm using a video converter to transcode my avdhc mts clips to prores422, in the settings i'm not changing the frame rate, and that aside checking the original mts file i am not seeing frame skipping - so it's definitely happening in the conversion process (?)

the source footage is shot on a sony nexvg10 (the image quality and dof from this camera is ******* awesome)

my fcp sequence settings match that of the clips . . .

i'm using the 'anusoft video converter', only $30, but up until this point seemed to be doing the job just great . . .

in some shots i see it's converted fine (or due to the for-shortening nature of the shot the skipping is hidden) but for instance on a locked-shot, wide, with cars moving from one side of the shot to the other, i notice a 'jumping' of the image. on closer inspection and tabbing i notice that the skipping takes place every . . . 24 frames.

to confirm - i'm exporting to prores422 in the same frame rate as the mts files were shot in, so do not see why this skipping should be occurring once the mts files are transcoded to prores and imported to fcp (again - my sequence settings match that of the 422 file) . . any ideas, comments or suggestions would be gratefully received,

thanks,

Why does everyone resort to buying spamware these days? Is it because they are top of search hits? Well, those are paid search results, thank you Google.

First, you should use log and transfer for the transcode. You may need to download the driver from the camera manufacturer. Otherwise, use clipwrap.

What seems to be happening is that it is changing the framerate of your source clip but not doing a proper standards conversion, resulting in dripped frames.



www.strypesinpost.com

in the rare case anyone else is curious as to the actual solution for the above problem, take heed - although i had initially set up the sequence settings on recommendation from some guy on a forum, which initially seemed correct - upon double checking they were in fact wrong and this is what led to the frame-skipping.

. . . the prores422 transcodes were 25fps (as shot) but the sequence was set at 23.something fps. the properties have now been amended and it runs wonderfully, and looks great . .

. . . ergo the lesson learned is that you can't (or shouldn't) always trust the first answer you see to a problem on any-old forum. it is of course always better to run 99-100% of questions via the splendid chaps here at lafpug. and for the record my transcode/converter software has worked perfectly, and against any known definition, including wikipedia, does not match the description or function of 'spamware'.

Kind regards and many thanks,
Bluey,

Well, we constantly delete spam posts that originate from posters hailing from developing countries who constantly tout spamware from companies like this here and on many other forums. If you feel it does a good job, then use it. It does little in terms of file management. You cannot rename your clips in the finder and still recapture from your source mags, you probably have no timecode or time of day timecode. This is rudimentary requirements to ensure a solid post workflow. Next to that, your clips should never be allowed to modify framerate or framesize when transcoding avchd for offline editing and as I mentioned earlier, the stutter looks like improper framerate conversion, which is indeed the case. Also, none of us have properly tested this software for quality, as softwares like this is a waste of money. Log and transfer does all this and is free.

Over here, clipwrap is often mentioned, because it does not allow you to modify frame size or frame rate, and best of all, it does not transcode unless you want it to. No software that i know of aside from log and transfer, will let you mux hdv and xdcam streams from an mts wrapper without forcing you to lose a generation. It works on both intel macs and ppc machines and is made from a reputable company in the professional video world and does an excellent job for its purpose.

None of us here are paid to sell it. We just recommend workflow tools that does a good job, tools that I would use myself to deliver for day in day out time and quality critical deliveries, and try to steer users away from dodgy softwares that may be more interested in stealing ip addresses and are a terrible waste of money. But use it by all means if you feel it helps you get your job done.



www.strypesinpost.com

> and for the record my transcode/converter software has worked perfectly, and
> against any known definition, including wikipedia, does not match the description
> or function of 'spamware'.

Every legit forum where the names "Aunsoft" and "PavTube" have appeared has generated criticism and scorn towards these two names. They are known as being low-quality software. The programs themselves are supposedly not "spamware" themselves (in that they don't install viruses, etc., onto your computer), but the companies manufacturing these programs are, unequivocally, spam companies that use unethical and illegal means to advertise their product. It is not a "pretentious" accusation at all; it is a well deserved bad reputation stemming from these companies' shady tactics across a wide spectrum.


www.derekmok.com

Hi -

. . well renaming clips isn't an issue on this project, i'm simply working with rushes labeled 0001 - 000303.

although frame-rate changes are offered, i've kept them the same, 25fps, changing the frame-rate is not a requisite here.

Quote
strypes
"No software that i know of aside from log and transfer, will let you mux hdv and xdcam streams from an mts wrapper without forcing you to lose a generation."

now that is interesting, so this software i've used has or could have potentially degraded my shots a generation? i do have quite a good eye for image quality, noise, resolution and haven't noticed a lacking compared to the original files.

due to your advice and obviously wanting to get the very best out of the footage here, i think i will do a test with your recommended software 'log and transfer' (obviously you don't mean the final cut L+T?)

do you have a link as to where i could download this free software?

the only dodgy thing about the company i've found so far is their broken english in email support, other wise everything seems ok but like derek says reputations do often exist for good reason. it will be interesting to do a shot-for-shot comparison using your recommended software to that which i've already used.


Cheers,
Bluey


p.s and this may sound, odd - but what would anyone want with someone else's IP address? what kind of things can be done to your computer if criminal/un-ethical idiots get hold of it?

Sure, FCP's Log and Transfer. FCP has been able to handle AVCHD import since, I think, 6.0.6. Do a search for AVCHD FCP on YouTube for a bunch of tutorials.

Oh, and IP hacking is pretty nasty. They can do a multitude of things, including physically controlling your computer. The chances of being hacked to that level are pretty remote, it depends on someone deciding to target you, but the number of painful things that are made possible by someone having your IP address make it not very fun at all. Harvesters sell these addresses. The people who buy them don't want them to send Xmas cards.

Jude Cotter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, and IP hacking is pretty nasty. They can do a
> multitude of things, including physically
> controlling your computer. The chances of being
> hacked to that level are pretty remote, it depends
> on someone deciding to target you, but the number
> of painful things that are made possible by
> someone having your IP address make it not very
> fun at all. Harvesters sell these addresses. The
> people who buy them don't want them to send Xmas
> cards.


Hi jude, thanks,

i am only running FCP 6.0, so if i do upgrade my version to 6.0.6 i'll then be able to natively transcode my AVCHD mts files? whats the easiest and most cost-effective way to upgrade?

also not to go off-topic here but i do strongly suspect that my machine may have been infected with key-logging spyware (i believe it can be transfered via usb keys now) do you know of any detection/removal software out there, that works? also is it possible to record someone eles's skype conversation (another suspicion) if you have their account information? unfortunately in months past i have come into contact with un-ethical scumbags, who knew my mbl and email information, and it's rolled from there.

also how can you guard against IP theft? if you could point me in the direction of a site or forum that could advise regards such matters i would be most grateful.

working with my transcoded mts's to prores's again last night i am noticing a kind of digital distortion occasionally popping up, that i've only ever usually associated with dv tape material, i'll check if it was on the original rushes,

Cheers,
Bluey


p.s while being in contact with the un-ethical scumbags, it was also boasted that they knew someone who 'could hack anything', they were of dubious criminal background and zero honour, also used to enjoy spying on other peoples mobile phones and emails. needless to say i have more than one reason to suspect, or more 'know for certain'. any pointers towards forums that could advise on such matters would again, be much appreciated.

Never stick to a .0 release of a software. There are usually quite a few bugs that will be ironed out in the subsequent releases. I could have sworn FCP 6 supported avchd, or you may need to check on the manufacturer's webpage to see if there is a plugin available.



www.strypesinpost.com

strypes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Never stick to a .0 release of a software. There
> are usually quite a few bugs that will be ironed
> out in the subsequent releases. I could have sworn
> FCP 6 supported avchd, or you may need to check on
> the manufacturer's webpage to see if there is a
> plugin available.

using log and transfer the mts files didn't seem to be recognised in the browser, it wouldn't let me select them . .

[library.creativecow.net]



www.strypesinpost.com

The MTS files don't belong in the Browser. You set your Scratch Disks and mount the storage volumes, then you set Log and Transfer preferences to determine which tapeless format converts to what. (Original directory structures must be retained to mount the volume) The files don't appear in the Browser until the files are actually converted.

You need to learn how to use Log and Transfer properly.


www.derekmok.com

That said, technically it cannot encode to ProRes on a machine that does not have FCP installed, unless they licensed the codec from Apple, although that is highly unlikely. They are probably using Quicktime's codec for the encoding.



www.strypesinpost.com

derekmok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The MTS files don't belong in the Browser. You
> set your Scratch Disks and mount the storage
> volumes, then you set Log and Transfer preferences
> to determine which tapeless format converts to
> what. (Original directory structures must be
> retained to mount the volume) The files don't
> appear in the Browser until the files are actually
> converted.
>
> You need to learn how to use Log and Transfer
> properly.


Hi Derek, thanks for the advice, but just to clarify - the scratch disks have of course been set and the storage volumes mounted. it is however not clear to me which formats are natively supported by Final Cut Pro, it seems your proposing that my 6.0 version does support AVDHC (mts?) and should be able to convert them to prores422, while Strypes is unsure if it does or doesn't, and Jude seems to think 6.0 doesn't and 6.0.6 does . . ?!

when mentioning 'the browser' what i'm saying is that there doesn't appear to be recognition by log and transfer, of my mts files, hence i am apparently unable to get them into fcp via this means.

i'm pretty sure i've interpreted all your responses correctly, they just seem to be at odds with each other? further clarification from one or the other would be appreciated! thanks guys,


Cheers,
Bluey

> the scratch disks have of course been set and the storage volumes mounted.

If your MTS files aren't "recognized" by Log and Transfer, that means your volumes aren't mounting properly. Otherwise you'd be seeing the files and you'd be able to choose them and convert.

Did you watch the tutorial strypes linked to? That tutorial was pretty painstakingly detailed. If you keep refusing to try what we suggest, it's very hard to help you.

If you did try the steps, then refer specifically to what step didn't work, the exact steps you took, what you're seeing when you try it, how it differs from the tutorial. For example:

"I opened Log and Transfer, clicked the Mount Volume button, and navigated to the 'Day 01 Card 01' folder I'd created on my external FireWire drive. The Card 01 folder holds the 'AVCHD' folder from the original memory card. When I try to mount this, Log and Transfer tells me 'Unable to locate directory structure'."

Just "Unable to get them in" tells us nothing. We can't tell if it's incompatibility on your system, human error, missing files, or anything else.


www.derekmok.com

It's hard to troubleshoot without actually seeing the situation. My 2 guesses would be- 1) your cards are not archived properly, and 2) you are not importing it properly into log and transfer.

> it seems your proposing that my 6.0 version does support AVDHC (mts?) and
>should be able to convert them to prores422, while Strypes is unsure if it does or
>doesn't, and Jude seems to think 6.0 doesn't and 6.0.6 does . . ?!

A few things here. We aren't the Apple tech support and R&D department. We are professionals who work in various aspects of post production. We don't keep files on each press report of a .1 fcp release, known bugs and fixes across each and every version, keep tabs on what is broken, which cameras work, which cameras don't, unless we've come across them ourselves. I remember that FCP 6 support for avchd and avc intra was one of its advertised features, but 6.0 was released close to 4 years ago, and tapeless formats are a dime a dozen.



www.strypesinpost.com

Quote
bluey
Now that is interesting, so this software i've used has or could have potentially degraded my shots a generation? i do have quite a good eye for image quality, noise, resolution and haven't noticed a lacking compared to the original files.

You must add a generation when making ProRes 422 from AVCHD. The AVCHD is coded with interframe compression and ProRes 422 is purely intraframe compression. To my eyes, transcoding 28 Mb/s AVCHD to ProRes 422 is visually lossless but there has definitely been a decoding and a coding between them, and different conversion softwares can do (at least) the decoding slightly differently.

Dennis Couzin
Berlin, Germany

Oh, wait, what computer are you using? Is it an Intel? From memory non-intel computers can't utilise the AVCHD transfer. And yeah, I was guessing about the version number, You could look it up and find something more accurate.

Also, you could do a search for 'what to do if someone has my IP number', which would probably yield results a lot more comprehensive than anything I could tell you here.

Jude Cotter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, wait, what computer are you using? Is it an
> Intel? From memory non-intel computers can't
> utilise the AVCHD transfer.

This is absolutely correct. FCP 6.0.6 L&T will import AVCHD on an Intel machine, but not on a PPC. You have to use Clipwrap (or similar) to convert the mts files to ProRes. But then, of course, Prores is not officially supported on PPC's anyway as I recently learnt from Ben King: [www.lafcpug.org]

As an aside here - unlike Bluey, I find the file naming convention of my HFS10 exasperating - ie 0000.mts, 0001.mts, etc. But there's a neat little app called Name Mangler which does a great job fixing that. Don't think it's spamware...

Mike

Hi Derek, again thank you very much for your time, although i'm far from 'refusing to get' the things suggested - although i can appreciate how it frustrating it must be dealing with people so less-experienced than yourself, and for that i can only apologize.

it had been made clear that i'm running fcp 6.0 and have only just had confirmation as which one of you guys is correct regards what it can and can't handle, again i'm obviously not as substantially professional as you, Derek, and am not proposing to be, every question asked has been most sincere and i'm just trying to work with you here. i am relatively new to fcp.

i also noticed the tutorial is for fcp 7 and not for either 6.0 or 6.0.6, hence the requested clarification as to wether the advice being given is appropriated to the version of fcp i'm running, or a later version. if you're giving tips on something that isn't enabled in 6.0 of course theres going to be a problem utilising your recommendations and advice.

many thanks dcouzin, jude, strypes, there's some useful tips here, although what i will be doing is purchasing a new tower specifically for this workflow - problem solved

Cheers all,
Bluey

One thing about software versions, is that you rarely get new features in a .0.1 update. Updates are usually related to bug fixes. New features are usually added in new versions or in a .5 update.



www.strypesinpost.com

. . . thanks again strypes, will take note