FCP Matrox O2

Hello: We are using a MBP with FCP 7 and CS4. Its been working great for our purposes. We are thinking of purchasing a Matrox MXO2 and we are wondering if anyone has used it and if its a good solution since an AJA IO HD or something similar is a bit out of our budget? We are shooting both SD and HD.

MBP Specs

Intel Core 2 Duo
Speed: 2.8 GHz
Cores: 2
Memory: 4 GB

The MXO2 is fantastic - especially for the price.

I recently used one from a 2008 MacBook Pro to output a live ProRes 422 HQ 1920x1080p25 stream from FCP via MXO2 HD-SDI to the satellite van sat next to the OB van!



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

I have nothing but raves for the MXO2. Got mine a couple years ago and swear by it.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Thanks for the response. MXO2 it is then. I have looked at a few new and used online. Given our MBP Specs any recommendations?

MBP Specs

Intel Core 2 Duo
Speed: 2.8 GHz
Cores: 2
Memory: 4 GB

Thanks'

For the time being, as long as its a MBP model with an ExpressCard port then you're good. Current MBP models limit that to the 17" ... make sure you've got that connection available before you buy.

If thats all good then the MXO2 you'd want to grab would be dependent on your specific and/or expected I/O needs. If you don't need HD/SD-SDI I/O or XLR and/or AES audio I/O and don't need to be able to power from a field battery then the MXO2 Mini is all you need. If you do need HD/SD-SDI I/O but not AES audio then chances are that the MXO2 LE is the sweet spot. If you want everything and portability then you'll want the full MXO2 ... and if you want everything and more and don't care about portable then theres the MXO2 Rack. And do you need/want accelerated H264 encoding ... if so make sure you grab one with the optional "MAX" technology.

For a start tho, I'd recommend taking a good hard look at the MXO2 LE w/ MAX ... that one could well be your best bet.

Cheers
Andy

Thanks Andy for the great info. If we decide to go tapeless (AVCHD) then should we consider the mini or MXO2 LE w/ MAX. I personally like the MXO2 LE w/ MAX just because the awesome features for the price.

Thanks`

MXO 2 is unusable by now.

Any scrub, even one frame, and you won't be able to play without an audio glitch. The most frustrating situation. choppy, not in sync...

and new drivers are to be released over the next few weeks since months


some quotes from user forum? start with this :
Matrox user forum

I'm having the audio problem that many people have reported and was supposedly fixed with the latest driver update. When scrubbing or incrementing frames to the left or right with the arrow keys, the audio will lose sync, and, upon playback, will either play in a distorted fashion, drop frames, skip through the video, etc etc. The only fix is (as previously reported on these forums), stopping and starting the playback again. This problem makes it near impossible to edit. As I've seen others state, you can't work in front of a client on a system like this.

or this :
Matrox user forum


Did Matrox put enough people at work to resolve it ? obviously not. This is unaceptable. Remember the "RtMacgate" ?

Don't get me wrong. Working ... it's a great gear. (MAX, monitor calibration, connectivity, versatility...)

But, by now, unless you go back system and Fcp versions, it is unusable for editing.


EDIT : March 7th, new beta driver are working good. Some more testing to go

How can this work for some and not for others? I use this box nearly daily and I don't have these issues at all. And it isn't as prevalent as it might appear. I don't see hardly any mention of this on the Matrox forum on the Cow, but I admit I don't visit the Matrox forums direct. But I wonder if it might be a hardware issue that is effecting a few units...some similar defect. Is Matrox not offering to swap out units to see if that solves the issue? They should be.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Well, now that I read that, I knew of this issue. The new drivers don't fix that? I had the issue too, with the 2.0 drivers, but the 2.1 drivers made it go away. It didn't for everyone?


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

My case is just the opposite. The 2.0 drivers are the most glitch free so far. Just occasional drop frame on scrubbing frame to frame. The 2.1 drivers were consistently doing so which made audio editing nearly impossible.

FYI I heard March 15th (via Peter Wiggins' excellent new site FCPdotCO) for a new driver release ... understand that amongst some new things it includes a fix for those suffering frame scrubbing audio glitches. Hopefully even Francios will find something to like ... if he hasn't already thrown his MXO2 out of the window by then ;-)

Andy Mees Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully even Francois
> will find something to like ... if he hasn't
> already thrown his MXO2 out of the window by then
> ;-)


they are many things I like about my MXO 2 LH with MAX, as I mentioned in my post, besides the price ....

but this audio glitch is so frustrating. It's a bug, it's not the hardware. Premiere and Avid users don't suffer of it, (which make the Fcp evangelist that I am even more frustrated...)

Ok, so where does that leave us. Should we go for it, speacially iof we decide to go the AVCHD route? Or should we wait for a brand new, glitch free model?

Thanks'

Apparently it leaves you confused M :-)
The "new driver" I mentioned above is not a new glitch free hardware model, I'm just talking about the projected release date for new firmware/software for the existing hardware .... this is something you download from their support website to add new features and/or fix bugs.

That said, there always seems to be something new just around the corner, and at one time or another I imagine we've all played the waiting game. If you don't really need an I/O solution immediately, then you might want to wait and see what cool new tech folks announce at NAB this year, after all, thats only a month away (April) ... of course, if you get tempted by something there then you might also then have to wait till around IBC, in September, for whatever gets announced at NAB to actually start shipping. Lol.

Just to get my 2cents in. I have been using the MXO2 for a couple of years, at least, with never a single problem. I love it and don't use half of what it is capable of.
Steve

steve-sharksdelight

Just playing devil's advocate here a bit...

FYI, the Matrox MXO2's feature to "calibrate" an external monitor is marketing hype. In other words, it doesn't do a proper calibration because all that is being done is (improperly) modifying the signal being sent to a monitor. The monitor itself needs to be adjusted manually (or via "high-end" hardware). The Matrox MXO2 and the computer control panel SW have no way of actually adjusting the controls/settings of external monitors.

Now, this is in contrast with the original Matrix MXO, which used the DDC protocol with Apple Cinema Display monitors to adjust the image shown on the monitor.

This is not to say that you can't do a good calibration with the MXO2, but it should be done by sending a proper signal from the computer via the MXO2 and setting up the monitor accordingly. Of course, for a more accurate calibration, you'd have to check into equipment from Cinetal and others (computer calibration devices aren't applicable here).

And, it should go without saying that unless you use a proper monitor (which will cost at least US$1000, if not much more), you won't be seeing a proper image just because you are using something like the MXO2.

Just something to keep in mind...


-Dave

P.S. - If the issues with drivers/SW with the Matrox devices is annoying or is potentially troublesome, I'd suggest looking at gear from AJA and Blackmagic Design instead. They are probably a tier above Matrox in terms of SW and HW quality, support, and higher price (to an extent). Of course, that isn't to say that Matrox's gear is horrible (as I have no desire to start a bickering match about different vendors)...

D-MAC...Matrox acknowledges that the tool doesn't work. It was designed for computer displays connected via DVI, and they ported it over. When they discovered the flaw and found out that it doesn't work, they have set out to make another tool for calibration. I'm sure they'll have something by NAB.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

>FYI, the Matrox MXO2's feature to "calibrate" an external monitor is marketing hype. In other words, it doesn't do a proper calibration because all that is being done is (improperly) modifying the signal being sent to a monitor. The monitor itself needs to be adjusted manually (or via "high-end" hardware). The Matrox MXO2 and the computer control panel SW have no way of actually adjusting the controls/settings of external monitors.

Yeah, the MXO2's current HDMI calibration tool was designed to calibrate its output signal according to the vagaries of the target monitor, not to calibrate the monitor itself - and I'd agree, the marketing blurb did not make that clear enough ... worse, it turned out to be a flawed process. Pity, it was great in theory.

That said, whilst its current incarnation isn't working as advertised, that revelation pushed Matrox back to the drawing board ... I'm not supposed to even mention let alone talk about whatever that visit may have produced ... so I won't.

>And, it should go without saying that unless you use a proper monitor (which will cost at least US$1000, if not much more), you won't be seeing a proper image just because you are using something like the MXO2.

The better quality the monitor you use the better quality the image you'll see is a pretty safe rule to play by ... but the Matrox MXO2 will help you make the most of whatever it is you have regardless of what you are using :-)

>I'd suggest looking at gear from AJA and Blackmagic Design instead. They are probably a tier above Matrox .... I have no desire to start a bickering match about different vendors.

Dude ... you totally just started one. Lol :-)

> I'd suggest looking at gear from AJA and Blackmagic Design instead. They are probably a tier above Matrox in terms of SW and HW quality, support, and higher price (to an extent). Of course, that isn't to say that Matrox's gear is horrible (as I have no desire to start a bickering match about different vendors)...

As a person who uses all three, I'd say you are wrong. AJA is more expensive and "better" only because of their top notch tech support. The quality of the signal you get from their gear is the same you get from BMD and Matrox. Matrox and BMD just happened to have lower end offerings...the MXO2 MIni and the Decklink Intensity Pro. The only differences really are in some features and software interfaces.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Shane Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I'd suggest looking at gear from AJA and
> Blackmagic Design instead. They are probably a
> tier above Matrox in terms of SW and HW quality,
> support, and higher price (to an extent). Of
> course, that isn't to say that Matrox's gear is
> horrible (as I have no desire to start a bickering
> match about different vendors)...
>
> As a person who uses all three, I'd say you are
> wrong. AJA is more expensive and "better" only
> because of their top notch tech support. The
> quality of the signal you get from their gear is
> the same you get from BMD and Matrox. Matrox and
> BMD just happened to have lower end
> offerings...the MXO2 MIni and the Decklink
> Intensity Pro. The only differences really are in
> some features and software interfaces.

I am sure it's a misunderstanding, and I realize that this is just an online forum, but you tell me I'm am wrong, flat out, then proceed to acknowledge one of my points.


In a professional setting, the cost of gear is one of the least critical things (where the difference isn't "too great" when compared with labor and other costs, and if you really track the cost of things well). I would also add that quality of the software/drivers is a very important difference.

I went out of my way to not say that the Matrox gear is inferior. However, it is acknowledged by you and others (psychology of ownership in consideration, which makes us all a bit subjective in our opinions) that there have been a few glitches in Matrox's software. And years ago, one of the I/O boards was very problematic.

To me, avoiding "little" issues as this provide enough reason to spend more money (or less in BMD's case for their Intensity Pro) to have peace of mind when using the equipment. I would say that BMD and AJA do offer a better overall experience, when considering support and the quality of their drivers (added cost notwithstanding, for AJA at least).

Again, that isn't to say that Matrox isn't a viable option. And, the point of my previous post was to add another perspective to the discussion, not to inflame the passions of Matrox supporters.

I think that we can agree that the MXO2 has had some problems with drivers (and firmware?), and that fact may be important for some of us who are considering which solution to choose.

I would be among the first to hope that Matrox gets their "SW act" together, as their products are quite compelling and a good value.

Oh well... I surrender...


-Dave

Well, the fact that this audio issue is still wide spread (fixed for me, but not for some), is cause for concern.

I hope they fix this soon.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Shane Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> D-MAC...Matrox acknowledges that the tool doesn't
> work. It was designed for computer displays
> connected via DVI, and they ported it over. When
> they discovered the flaw and found out that it
> doesn't work, they have set out to make another
> tool for calibration. I'm sure they'll have
> something by NAB.

Oh man, was just about to pull the trigger on an MXO2 with a Plasma display for a client monitor, first I've heard of this issue. I've used the old MXO with a 23" Cinema Display for years, was hoping to calibrate the Plasma to "close enough" using the MXO2. Is the process completely useless, or just flawed? Do you think their solution will be an upgrade to the existing units or a whole new device?

JVK

Just checked the MXO boards, could have answered my own question:

"In the coming weeks you will see a number of exciting releases for the MXO2 family of products. These drivers will provide updates for our NLE plug-ins as well as add a number of new utilities. One of these utilities will be a comprehensive HDMI calibration tool which looks to identify and compensate for any number of processing errors introduced by the HDMI display circuitry.

We look forward to delivering this software to you soon, as well as receive your feedback."

_______________________________________
SCQT! Self-contained QuickTime ? pass it on!

Quote
JVK quoting from Matrox forum
One of these utilities will be a comprehensive HDMI calibration tool which looks to identify and compensate for any number of processing errors introduced by the HDMI display circuitry.

First of all, calibrating a connected computer display via DVI (using DDC) is an entirely different "beast" compared with calibrating an external video display via a video signal connection.

With the DDC protocol (and a supporting display), you can adjust the display's/monitor's brightness and contrast from the computer. You can't do that with a TV/broadcast monitor connected via HDMI (no DDC-like protocol).

So, it isn't necessarily "compensating for processing errors in the HDMI display."

The HDMI TV/broadcast monitor needs to be set up "separately" (from direct control of software running on the computer for the MXO2 or any I/O device).

There is no way to only use the computer to completely calibrate an external TV/monitor.

There are two "valid" ways (at least) to calibrate an external monitor (not a cheap computer monitor connected via HDMI).

One is to set up the external monitor using its controls while displaying a proper test signal. This is how most of us "set up" our external CRT-based broadcast monitors. Send the monitor a valid set of bars and put it into "blue-gun" mode, adjust the color, brightness, contrast, etc.

So, when Matrox is essentially saying to only use the computer and MXO to adjust the signal before it gets to the external monitor, that is not correct (maybe marketing/support people who say this aren't very knowledgeable).

The other, higher-end way of doing calibration is to have a HW device measure the display output (as you would do with a computer display HW calibration device, such as Spyder 3 Pro). Because, if you are outputting a valid video signal from your I/O device, you really don't want to mess with that signal if you can adjust the TV/monitor.

Companies like Cinetal provide the means for proper, HW-based calibration of external TVs/broadcast monitors. But, they are more expensive, as they include a video processing/calibration "box" and a HW sensor to measure the screen output ( and feed that back to the "box" ).

This stuff gets real technical, real fast.

-----

I should say that doing a "manual" calibration with an AJA, BMD, or Matrox I/O card is the same for all of them. You want to adjust the monitor/TV first, as much as possible, before you start messing with the signal going to it. Or, use something like that from Cinetal to do a very accurate (and guaranteed) calibration.


-Dave

FYI, I've used two MXO2 Minis and BOTH of them have the stuttering audio problem in FCP (not Media Composer). Not fixed by the latest drivers.

Pretty annoying.

- Justin Barham -

Dave

Sorry man, at this point tho it's getting tricky for me to continue the calibration tools discussion. You make some really clear and obviously valid comments, and some more that may be open to different interpretation. I'd be inclined to discuss the latter but I'm on the Matrox beta team at present, and whilst they allow me some room to leak out a bit of pre-release info every now and again, hint at new features coming up etc I'm under strict NDA with regards to the new calibration tool. All I will say on the subject is this ... in your summary you note that: doing a "manual" calibration with an AJA, BMD, or Matrox I/O card is the same for all and you want to adjust the monitor/TV first, as much as possible, before you start messing with the signal going to it. to which I would reply that to my knowledge only one those three vendors mentioned is actively looking to provide their users with a toolset designed specifically to assist in those processes.

Ok, I'm out of this thread for now.

Cheers
Andy

Let me ask this to anyone that might know or give a hint. These new features and upgrades that are being worked on by Matrox, Are they also for units that we bought say 6 months ago??

I'd like to feel better about some of my recent purchases

They will probably be firmware upgrades. So you can download and run the installer.



www.strypesinpost.com

The quote I posted above was from the MXO boards and they specifically mention that the upgrades are planned for the MXO2 family.

Shane Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, the fact that this audio issue is still wide
> spread (fixed for me, but not for some), is cause
> for concern.

Shane,

you don't have the audio glitch after scrubing ?

MacPro Nehalem ?
OS 10.6.5 / 10.6.6 ?
Fcp 7.0.3 ?
Latest or "reversed to the previous" Prokit ?
MXO 2 original or LH ?

thanks