How do you protect your drives from a power outage: UPS?

During this weekend storm in LA, I lost power at my home while working from my brand new G Tech.
After the 1 minute power outage I got a message saying that I needed to reformat my drive...
I was still able to work (media is on the drive) but I couldn't export anything on it...I guess I need a UPS or something like that?...
But.... $$ are a concern.

Any suggestions?

Thx

Yes...absolutely. I have a UPS, and have the computer, main monitor, and hard drives on the battery part of it. ALWAYS.

I have the APC brand. 8 plugs, $300.


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Yeah, money is always a concern, but it's just one of many variables.

Do you have a backup of that data? How long would it take you to recreate the contents of that hard drive from scratch? How much is your time worth? If you will lose billable hours, how many will you lose? Do you have auto insurance? Do you have home owner's or renter's insurance? I think you get the pretty obvious, no-brainer point I'm making with these "rhetorical" questions.

It is likely that your data is important for personal or business reasons.

Anyway, without buying "server grade" UPS gear, you can get some pretty good protection for under $200.

You'll have to figure out the capacity you'll need, but I use one of these on each of my Mac Pro setups, my audio system, TV, etc (I have 5 of this particular model --- no problems after 2 years):

CyberPower UPS

The more expensive CyberPower units (like the one I referenced) are quite good. The next step up may be the Smart-UPS series from APC, which may cost double the price.

The cost of these units is negligible when compared to damaged electronics, lost data, pulled out hair, etc.



-Dave

Xav, DiskWarrior can sometimes see these drives that OS brands "needs reformatting". I wouldn't give up on it quite yet. Try DiskWarrior and see if it can "see" the drive. There's also a trick from the old days where if you plug in a drive while DiskWarrior is running, it sometimes sees it though it normally can't.


www.derekmok.com

Sorry guys for the late reply. Your advices are greatly appreciated.

I don't need the media this time, thanks god.... But I might not be so lucky next time.
So I will try Disk warrior or Disk Utility maybe...

Or I'll return the drive since I bought it last Saturday....
But for sure I need to invest in one of these UPS then. The prices seem fair considering the value of what I could have lost. Cyberpower seems to be in my price range.

When is the "rainy" season over in California?!!

>So I will try Disk warrior or Disk Utility maybe...

No. Not disk utility. Disk warrior. Disk warrior rebuilds and replaces the drive directory when drives fail to mount due to a corrupt directory.



www.strypesinpost.com

Well since the drive is new and doesn't even mount anymore I'll just return and exchange it...

But good tips for the future, thx

xavpil Wrote:
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> Well since the drive is new and doesn't even mount
> anymore I'll just return and exchange it...
>
> But good tips for the future, thx

The fact that the drive doesn't mount is most likely due to the fact that your power went off, which corrupted the directory structure and other volume information. It probably has nothing to do with the disk drive hardware itself. This kind of corruption can also happen when you unplug/disconnect an external hard drive before unmounting it in the Finder.

DiskWarrior is good at repairing theses types of non-HW corruptions. Depending on how much data is stored on this hard drive, you may save a lot of time and money by using DiskWarrior.


-Dave

This is mine - a TrippLite. My external HDs, computer & Monitor are on a surge protector plugged into the battery backup side. I have had flat blackouts and the only thing left running in the house was my workstation (not even so much as a glitch). Gives me 30 - 60 minutes of battery power to save and close. $99 at Costco ($107 on Amazon):



[www.amazon.com]

Definitely a no-brainer - must have battery backup at all times.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

APC UPS's on everything here. I'd say UPS's a necessity for any pro computer work.

Graeme

grafixjoe Wrote:
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> ($107 on Amazon):
>
>

Awesome!!

Ordered!!!

xavpil Wrote:
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> grafixjoe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ($107 on Amazon):
> >
> >
>
> Awesome!!
>
> Ordered!!!

It's probably too late, but no one bothered to mention that you need to properly assess the load you will put on a UPS before you decide which model to purchase.

The model mentioned above only supports a full load of 500 watts. For example, one of the new Mac Pros PCI bus uses 300 watts itself. The entire Mac Pro can create loads exceeding 1200VA, which is beyond the rating of the mentioned unit. This doesn't include consideration of monitors and other devices.

Fortunately, most manufacturers offer "load" calculators on their websites, in order to help you select the correct model. Battery duration is also another thing to consider. Under a full load (500W), the Tripp-Lite model mentioned is rated to last 3 minutes.

This stuff can get pretty technical for people not familiar with electrical loads, power consumption, etc. Most vendors/manufacturers provide online or phone support to help figure out the best match.

You may also want to consider if the back-up battery is replaceable, as they may last only two or three years, depending on use.

Just a little FYI...



-Dave

Power outage must not damage any drives. A UPS is only for temporary (and 'dirty') power during a blackout. Convenient for uninterrupted work. And to protect unsaved data. But a UPS will nothing for what ever damaged those disks. Does not even claim to. Otherwise someone would post manufacturer spec numbers that claim that protection. Nobody will.

UPS typically has a three year life expectancy. Batteries degrade quickly. A computer typically consumes 200 watts and rarely more than 350 watts. So the UPS should be sized at least 500 watts to provide enough power three years later. Because batteries degrade.

Good points there, Dave. You need to calculate the total power consumption of your devices (hard drives, mac pro as well as peripherals such as monitors before you buy a UPS.



www.strypesinpost.com

In case someone is looking for actual power consumption numbers for Mac Pros (2010 models excluded, but probably close to 2009 models), here is an Apple Knowledge Base article:

Mac Pro Power Consumption.

Note that the numbers don't account for any PCIe cards, except for the stock GPU. Higher-end graphics cards probably add significant power consumption to the total (not negligible). Monitors and other devices aren't included, of course.

And, when determining your required VA or Watts for a UPS, you want to leave a 20 to 30 percent margin over your calculated amount. You don't want to operate your UPS near or at its maximum power consumption rating.

As an example, my CyberPower UPS right now shows 360 Watts power consumption on my Mac Pro (2009 8-core model), including powered speakers and two 23" Cinema display monitors. My current CPU load is quite low (a few percent on each core). When I am using all cores, maxed out, the power consumption jumps to well over 400 Watts. Add in an external broadcast monitor, or two, and a RAID (150+ Watts) and things reach over 650 Watts (up to 800, at times).


-Dave

You have your speakers on UPS? I put them on surge protection/power conditioning but not the UPS.
Audio isn't needed when you're trying to shut down quickly in a power outage.
The battery back up should be feeding CPU, Drives, at least one monitor if you're running close to the line (mobile systems, on set gennys etc)
Of course if you have excess UPS you can dump it all on but I saw this reasoning proven during the Big East Coast blackout of a few years back. I had swept the edit suites and tidied up the FW drives (1 per episode offline) onto a separate power bar that went into UPS and took all the non essential stuff off the UPS and into Surge protection. When the grid went down I had almost 2 minutes to shut down before the UPS started beeping like crazy and I found the shut down switch.
Nothing like finding someone's cell phone charger plugged into the UPS. Or a fridge. I was tracking down hum in an edit suite and discovered a bar fridge behind a sofa with a long extension cable plugged into the same outlet as the Edit and Audio gear. The circuit was UPS'ed into the rack room.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Westcom mentioned battery degradation over time.
Does anyone know the best way to dispose of these UPS batteries when they are replaced?
I have a 5 year old 1500a/900w unit that probably should be replaced but I don't want to just drop it in
the dumpster.

Quote
D-Mac
It's probably too late, but no one bothered to mention that you need to properly assess the load you will put on a UPS before you decide which model to purchase.

You didn't mention it yourself til just now there dave

Anyway, as I said...my computer (Macbook Pro), 2 external RAIDs (Caldigit VR / NewerTech Guardian Maximus) and 24" monitor all were safely backed up on battery power on this above mentioned unit long enough for me to comfortably save, backup and shut down (30 minutes or so). Best $100 I ever spent. Even if it lasts 3 years (and the last one lasted 5 years, btw)...it's only $100. Doesn't matter of the unit has a replaceable battery. That is a much more expensive unit and probably for a much larger load.

It is smart to get an exact load total to make sure you are covered.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Quote
Joey
You didn't mention it yourself til just now there dave

No kidding. ;P

That's why I came back. We were all suggesting various units without explaining the gear running on them (power consumption/load).

So, yeah, Mac Pro with lots of PCIe cards and other stuff requires more capacity than a MacBook Pro.

And, Joey, like you said, best investment made (for $100 to $200, in our cases). Having a UPS is essential for anyone using computers. I have them on any gear that costs more than the UPS, if only for surge protection... stereo, TVs, cordless phones (so they work during power outages), etc.

Andrew, I cringe to think that someone had a refrigerator on a UPS (hopefully, it was on the surge protection only portion). My printers and speakers are only on the surge outlets of the UPS.

Great discussion. Thanks.


-Dave

"MacBook Pro"

of course, with their own batteries, they don't really need a UPS at all, do they?


nick

Quote

My printers and speakers are only on the surge outlets of the UPS.

This is actually a very important note - Printers (especially when in use) draw a huge amount of power and if you need to UPS them then it's advisable to get a separate dedicated UPS for them or a really expensive large UPS for all your kit.

Otherwise let all non-essential peripherals can go down with the power and you should be ok to save what you are doing.

Another important point.

VA is not the best way to determine what size UPS you need.

Get a power meter from the local electrical/hardware store and monitor how many WATTS you are using. This is usually expressed as kWh or KiloWatt-hours.

I was lucky enough to have a free wireless power consumption meter from my energy supplier so I can see "watt" I am using... (sorry couldn't resist).

For instance my usual set up:

Essentials:
32GB MacPro 8 Core, 4 internal HDDs, Nvidia GTX285, 30" ACD, Blackmagic Multibridge, 8TB SAS RAID, 16TB SAS RAID, Wacom Tablet.

Non-essentials:
42" Panasonic Plasma, 19" CRT HD Broadcast monitor, Surround Sound System and Speakers, Macbook Pro, Playstation 3 (for testing DVDs and distracting clients).

This consumes about 640 to 800 Watts per hour or 0.8kWh so my UPS is rated for that.

I also have all the gear on separate fused switches so in the event of a power-outage I can power down the additional non-essentials to extend the amount of time I have from my UPS for instance to finish a render in AE or an upload of a file.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

A UPS is very important and an absolute necessity in the US (unfortunately). I've never ever had any power outage problems in Germany. Only here in the US there are lots of outages, almost all the time (Thanks, Georgia Power!).

I have a Mac Pro, two 30" Apple Displays and a few other things connected to a APC XS 1500. It's powerful enough and works perfectly catching all power outages... short or long without any interruption.

Quote

of course, with their own batteries, they don't really need a UPS at all, do they?

Yes...they do at my house. What if your battery is dead and the power is cut? It has happened to me. I use my MBP in the living room on battery, run it down to almost "0" (getting the warning), came into my office to plug it in and the main power went out. I was able to plug it into the surge protector that was on battery backup and save what I was doing. I live in Florida where the power goes out multiple times a day and brown-outs are common. Power dips ("Brown-outs", power surges and black outs can cause you to lose data and can damage equipment.

As far as Speakers and all that...they do not need to be on the battery backup...they can be on the surge protection side of the unit. The only things that need to be battery backed are things that can lose data if power is cut abruptly (the HDDs, the CPU, etc).

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

>I've never ever had any power outage problems in Germany.

I have no UPS at home or in most places that I have worked at. The more crucial equipment has them- servers, central SAN storage, etc. The last time I had a power trip was when I wrongly wired my guitar amp when I was 15. Power outage was more common in the 80s and my dad had to light up the candles. But depending on where you live- a friend has them in his edit suite, and it took 2 guys to carry one of them up the stairs. A UPS can be crucial.

I have a Belkin surge protector, though. Haven't heard of anything damaged by surges during a lightning storm, but just in case.



www.strypesinpost.com

Sorry Strypes...that is just insane. Your work CPU and drives are not deemed "crucial equipment"? It is absolutely insane (and irresponsible, if I may add) working without Battery backup on client-funded projects under deadline in a Professional environment...period. You may feel you do not need it until it happens and you lose everything. Battery Backup should be a line item on EVERYONE'S LIST when building a workstation.

At my Studio, our entire machine room, Capture Cave, 5 edit suites, 7 audio suites, 2 Sound Booths and all associated cubicles (our entire department) is completely battery backed up. We have had the building go dark in a lightning storm and we kept working until the building generator kicked in (it wouldn't hurt to have a generator either, depending on your location and work importance).

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

grafixjoe Wrote:
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> Sorry Strypes...that is just insane. Your work CPU
> and drives are not deemed "crucial equipment"? It
> is absolutely insane (and irresponsible, if I may
> add) working without Battery backup on
> client-funded projects under deadline in a
> Professional environment...period. You may feel
> you do not need it until it happens and you lose
> everything.

Power loss does not harm any CPU or disk drive. That reality contradicts popular urban myth. A reality that was even an international design standard generations ago.

A UPS only protects unsaved data. Anyone who does not periodically save data to a hard drive all but deserves to lose all his data. Data saved to a hard drive is not harmed or threatened by a power loss. As was true even 50 years ago when disk drives even used motor oil to move their heads.

westom,

Don't know why you quoted me and then said what you said. I never said power loss harms any equipment physically. BUT...have you ever had a power outage in the middle of a FCP autosave? Guess what happens...the FCP project is corrupted and you cannot open it again. EVER. Could mean the loss of an entire project.

If you are going to quote and correct me, it's gotta make sense

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

> Power loss does not harm any CPU or disk drive. That reality contradicts popular urban
> myth.

It's no myth. As Joe pointed out, sudden loss of power during any kind of data writing to the drive will mess up that file and possibly more. It can do things to your software preferences, permissions, any number of computer files/components which are often being updated without your knowledge. Finally, Mac OS is constantly "speaking" to connected drives, so even if no software other than OS is running, sudden loss of power can result in directory corruption.

All those above scenarios constitute "harm" to me.


www.derekmok.com

derekmok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's no myth. As Joe pointed out, sudden loss of
> power during any kind of data writing to the drive
> will mess up that file and possibly more. It can
> do things to your software preferences,
> permissions, any number of computer
> files/components which are often being updated
> without your knowledge.

That failure could exist using filesystem technologies from 20 years ago. Today's filesystem technologies make that data damage virtually impossible. If unsaved data is lost by a power loss during a write, then the filesystem simply restores last saved copy. No saved data is lost.

If you are suffering data damage due to a power outage, then why are you still using technologies that were obsoleted in 1990? UPS has only one purpose. Provides time to save unsaved data. Does nothing to protect data on any drive; unless you are still using an obsolete file system.

Yes, it is not a myth. But only if a file system is decades obsolete. UPS does not protect saved data. Provided time to save unsaved data.

Well, I have started up drives that cannot mount with disk warrior in the last couple of years. What caused it? Hard reboot which resulted in directory corruption. And those are HFS+, some of them are journaled volumes. Not sure what you mean by modern file systems. And I'm sure anyone who has worked long enough would have the same experience. There was a more modern filesystem than HFS+ that was kinda axed by Apple sometime last year before the final snow leopard release.



www.strypesinpost.com