Timecode breaks on client supplied tapes

I have a new client who is supplying me with tapes that he and his staff are shooting. The problem that I'm encountering is that they will shoot an event on a tape, then take that tape out and shoot something else on it a couple of days later. This is because they are trying to keep all the clips of a certain cohort together (it's a trade school) on one tape.

So naturally, I'm pulling my hair out over the timecode breaks. If they were to black each tape before shooting, would this alleviate the timecode problem?

> If they were to black each tape before shooting, would this alleviate the timecode
> problem?

Waste of time. All they have to do is do some pre-roll at the beginning of each shoot, and some post-roll at the end of each shoot. It's not a great habit to shoot multiple projects on one tape, but it's not that hard to deal with if each section has discreet continuous timecode.


www.derekmok.com

It's been awhile since I worked with tapes but I remember being able to set FCP to capture over timecode breaks in user preferences.

Thanks for the reply. The problem with that is that it doesn't account for the fact that every time he takes the tape out of the camera and puts it back in, it resets the time code and I end up with duplicate time codes, which makes for a headache in capturing.

I tried setting my preferences in Final Cut to make a new clip upon time code break, but it doesn't like that. It still dumps me out of the capture.

I thought that perhaps blacking the tape would lay down a control track so that even if he takes the tape out, it won't reset the time code.

> I tried setting my preferences in Final Cut to make a new clip upon time code break

That's not enough. You have to log each section as a new reel, but use a Reel Name that indiciates to the operator that it's the same tape, different section:

Reel 001A
Reel 001B
Reel 001C

or

Reel 001 TC01
Reel 001 TC02

Every time you capture a section, you have to manually cue the tape to the correct timecode section.

Leave at least six to 10 seconds of room before the first Media In point, ie. don't set an In point too close to the last timecode break.

It's not an uncommon problem and it's not that hard to solve. Unless they had more than seven or eight timecode resets on the same tape (so that manual cueing becomes too difficult to keep track of), in which case you just redub the whole tape to an equivalent tape and write a completely new, continuous timecode.

Striping the whole tape with timecode would have prevented this problem, but it's prohibitively time-consuming and logistically unsound. You'd have to use only pre-striped tapes; you'd have to ferry the tape to the camera operators; and you'd have to spend a whole hour blacking a tape that may only end up containing 20 minutes of footage. No production I know does that anymore. Besides, any professional production would have known how to deal with timecodes on a tape, and also would have known better than to shoot more than one project on a tape.


www.derekmok.com

Thanks for the reply Derek.

It's not a professional production. These are basically home movies for the trade school. I tried what you suggested about the different reels, but then I guess I would need to babysit the capture and make sure to hit the button to start the capture on the next reel?

> but then I guess I would need to babysit the capture and make sure to hit the button to
> start the capture on the next reel?

That's not all. You also need to cue the tape forward to the correct section. For all intents and purposes, a section with a reset timecode is a new tape.


www.derekmok.com

Quote

If they were to black each tape before shooting, would this alleviate the timecode problem?

yes.
you may still get TC breaks, but they shouldn't re-set to zero, so it's a lot easier on you

Quote
Derek
Waste of time. All they have to do is do some pre-roll at the beginning of each shoot, and some post-roll at the end of each shoot.

yes, but that's not going to happen!


you can leave FCP to capture over TC breaks
it will leave a pre-roll, i'm pretty sure.
if you are worried, you can se the pre-roll to 4 second now,
then back to 3 seconds afterwards.
should get you out of trouble.


the clips get numbered sequentially, so you can easily modify the reel# if FCP doesn't do that (cant remember if it does or not).
i would log the reel#s and duration's of the segments on the tape case, if possible, or somewhere you wont lose it.
that way if you need to re-capture from reel 001-G, you know roughly where in the tape that seg is.

of course on a job like this you probably wont need to re-capture
(famous last words!)


nick

> you can leave FCP to capture over TC breaks

Nick, she has not just breaks, but timecode resets -- which probably also means there is a non-timecoded section before the reset. FCP can't capture across a break that way. Aside from the manual method above, I think the only other way to get around that is Non-Controllable Device, and that doesn't work if it's a Batch Capture.


www.derekmok.com

yes, i see.
i'm sure i've had FCP pick up after re-sets,
but not when there were whopping great holes, you are right.

given the nature of the job,
maybe a future batch capture is not needed?
possibly just archive the clips to a drive the client supplies.

other options are to dub the tape first, but i've had problems copies 'ive made from tapes with TC breaks
or capture now,
lay the clips out in a timeline (with 5 seconds of slug or bars+tone at the head), then do a playback to tape.
then modify your clip's TC to match the TC on tape.
(you'd change the sequence TC to match the new tape TC, then modify the clip TC according to the sequence TC... ouch)

all these things are gradually coming back to me from when i used to capture from tape...
not fun.

convincing the shooters to black their tapes is less painful.


nick

> given the nature of the job,
> maybe a future batch capture is not needed?

Yeah, probably. You know how much I dislike Capture Now, but in this case it might be fine. This is probably DV, so backing up the captured clips would not be a major issue. And if a be-all-end-all solution were required at some point, a FireWire redub to write new timecode isn't a major undertaking, either.

Really should teach the client about pre-roll and post-roll, though. For his own good.


www.derekmok.com

Capture Now, but go to sequence settings and change to "make new clip" on timecode break. Next time set timecode to regen in the camera.



www.strypesinpost.com

Read the OP more carefully...

>I tried setting my preferences in Final Cut to make a new clip upon time code break

That's weird. You may want to skip that section. It could be a really tiny section surrounded by TC breaks and FCP can't find a pre roll point for it. If all else fails, switch to uncontrollable device as derek suggested and run capture now.


Yea, try to avoid reusing tapes and make sure the camera is set on regen. If they insist on shooting over used tapes, buy them tapes and charge it to their project cost.



www.strypesinpost.com

If you aren't aiming on doing a conform (i.e. you are capturing at your finished resolution) then just capture the clips with the deck set as 'non-controlled' or whatever it is you have to do to record a 'live' source.

Timecode will mean nothing, but you will just be able to capture the media.

If you have to do offline/online then do the same but record the 'burn-in' output from the deck... you then have to split the clips at each timecode break and modify them to have the timecode match the burn in. And label the reel names as Joe suggested. Oh and you have to edit with burn-in, so make it small and out of the way...

I suspect blacking the tapes prior won't work because there will still be timecode breaks that make no sense as they aren't assemble editing within the camera, merely crash recording - this is why capture across tc breaks isn't working I would guess.

The reason one would stripe DV tapes before recording is that most DV cameras will only reset their TC to zero when they can't find available TC on the adjacent bits of tape. The problem arises when, with spooling and unspooling, if you take a tape out and put it back in the tape near the head will be blank. If the tape has been striped there will always be TC'd tape nearby and it will always be higher then what was recorded so far. You could use the "capture over breaks" function because the TC would be incrementing properly and FCP would find the breaks without getting confused by duped TC.

Having said that I know of no one who has ever implemented this process on a regular basis. It doubles the wear and tear on tape heads, ties up gear and can be somewhat easily overcome by recording 5 seconds of "hands" at the end of anything so the next person just has to rewind into the previous "hands" and start recording there. That takes less time then pre-striping hours of tape but training people to do that is easier said than done.

You could also dub the tapes, making new continuous TC on the new tape. Some decks had this capability but some would only clone the tape, bad TC included.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Wow, lots of great input from everybody. It sounds like the best thing is going to be to train the shooters (I know, I know -- easier said than done -- but fortunately most of the shooting is done by one guy) to give me handles and then just do capture now rather than batch capture.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Adding 'hands' (a shot of the camera guys hand in frame for about 20 seconds) or bars (on higher end cameras) is a great visual clue as well. You can see from a distance that there is a break coming. Bars is best because it's usually combined with tone, and that you can hear from the other end of the building, and it's so different to the normal chatter noise of a capture that it alerts you really quickly.

i'll add that adding a hand, or bars, at the end of the days shooting is a good idea, too.
oh, i see Jude is saying that already: hands or Bars & Tone at the start of a tape, and at the end of a shoot session will help a lot.

love the idea of tone as an "alarm"!

Quote

It sounds like the best thing is going to be to train the shooters

show them this thread!
they'll get an idea of how such a simple thing as taking the tape in and out can cause so much work for whoever is doing the edit


cheers,
nick

I might suggest to them that the $2 they are saving from not breaking out a new DV tape is costing them $50 in the edit bay when you have to sit there for an hour and watch a capture.

$50? Your quotation's a bit bargain there, old boy. Equipment, possible failures, plus the cost of extra backups if Batch Capture's not possible...and lost footage when they get trigger-happy and don't pre-/post-roll.


www.derekmok.com

All they have to do-- on cameras that support it and most do-- is END SEARCH-- load in, press ES, and it picks up on existing TC and increments forward from it. I use it all the time to avoid the parent-child reel scheme. No breaks, just like stripe.

OTH, cameras which *can* stripe -- I say use it! We used to black and code betacam to avoid breaks. Consumer and some prosumer cams are just "Assembly mode" machines. End Search was invented for those.

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
Nudge a Canvas layer by SUBpixels
with Command-Option with Arrow keys !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com