7D and HPX170 best timeline option

Hi all,

Gosh this one makes me feel like a newbie all over again cuz you'd think it would be fairly straight forward. In an effort to create the most optimum matching footage for the 2 different cameras we had (Canon 7D and Panasonic HPX170), I figured I'd shoot at 1080p 29.97fps on the 7D and 1080i 29.97 on the HPX170 as they would at least be the same size, right?

Then I got into a sequence settings war in FCP - which setting would allow me to actually edit (least rendering needed). And then I found out they wanted some 720p 24fps footage mixed into the timeline. How to make all of these play nicely in the sandbox together with the least loss of resolution while utilizing the beauty of the 1080p stuff.

When I drop an MVI file into the sequence and say to match settings I get

HDTV1080i
Square
Upper
H.264

(of course I have used compressor to convert all MVI files to Apple Pro res 422 to use in my edit)

When I drop an HPX170 file in and match settings I get

(HD1280x1080) (16x9)
none
29.97
DVCPro HD 1080p 30

If I try to drop an HPX file into the MVI settings timeline I have to blow it up to 150 percent with -50 ratio distortion to fit the frame... cleary not the same size AND the render color is red.

Now it gets weirder. If I set the sequence to the HPX settings and bring in an MVI file - they both fit the screen at 100 percent with a yellow render needed on the MVI. Clearly the better choice EXCEPT the fact that the 7D footage now looks interlaced and crappy and doesn't get better upon export.


Another test was a 720p sequence and both the MVI raw (bad) and the Compressor 422 conversion (worse) looked horrible.

Any help out there?

OSX 10.6.7
2 x 2.66 Intel
FCP 7.0.3

Muchas Gracias

Troy

>(of course I have used compressor to convert all MVI files to Apple Pro res 422 to use in my edit)

Liar. If you did, your sequence settings would reflect that. They would say "Apple ProRes 422 1080p 29.97." And not "HDTV H.264." You dropped the raw H.264 into the timeline. Do not do that.

Convert all your 5D footage to ProRes. You can use Log and Transfer for that. There is the EOS Log and Transfer plugin that allows this...google it. Make a sequence with the converted footage...it will be ProRes, full raster, and 10-bit. And then add the DVCPRO HD footage to that sequence. It will match well, and should be a green render.

As for the 720p24...that's an issue. Mixed frame rate. FCP doesn't add the proper pulldown, so you will have to convert that to 1080p 29.97 before you use it.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

^Liar. If you did, your sequence settings would reflect that. They would say "Apple ProRes 422 1080p 29.97." And not "HDTV H.264." You dropped the raw H.264 into the timeline. Do not do that.

Subtle Shane ... perhaps I wasn't clear. I did that as a TEST trying to see why the footage looked so poor thinking that perhaps the raw would look better. And BOTH the compressor files and originals looked bad. Also,, I wanted to check what the settings would be as far as size. I DID in fact convert them all and am using those to edit. They look like crap though. In my edit timeline I AM using the converted Apple Pro Res files.

Sequence settings are

HD(1280)(16x9)
Pixel HD (1260)
None
29.97
Compressor Apple Pro Res 422

Green render

Looks like crap.

> Green render
> Looks like crap.

Did you render? If you didn't, of course it would look like crap.


www.derekmok.com

If you have to render, then something is wrong. Settings don't match.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

yep- hence my confusion...

missing something somewhere. Into a session I'll be back online around 4:30 to do some tests..

thanks...

rendered and exported both...

The problem is, your information is all over the place above. You gave us some information on your camera masters, but not complete information. And then when you showed us the clip settings, you were using the Sequence Settings...and you didn't show the converted clips. You showed us the H.264 clips, which tells us nothing about what you converted the clips to, and why those converted clips would need rendering.

And according to your settings, the Panasonic HPX170 footage is not full-raster 1920x1080; it's 1280x1080. Your Sequence Settings are also set to anamorphic 720p (960x720, as reflected by the "HD" pixel aspect ratio, not square-pixel 1280x720). You're mixing too many different pieces of information.

Start from the beginning. Show us the actual clip settings (APPLE-9) of the camera masters in FCP, not by importing them into a Sequence. Then show us the clip settings of the clips after you ran them through Compressor. Judge the clips on their own (QuickTime Player, or the FCP Viewer), not by placing them into a timeline. If you made mistakes in the Sequence Settings, the timeline will be an inaccurate gauge of picture quality.


www.derekmok.com

cool- after my session I'll retrace the steps

thanks!

Footage:

HPX170
1080i 29.97
720p 23.98

Canon 7D
1080p 29.97

Converted 7D footage to Apple Pro Res 422 using compressor

End user HD QT file via internet or Data DVD

(I will convert the 720p to 1080p 29.97 per Shane's note)

When I drop the 7D Apple ProRes 422 compressor conversion into a timeline and select match settings I get:
HDTV 1080i (16x9)
Square
Upper
29.97
Apple ProRes 422

When I drop the HPX170 footage into a sequence and match I get:
HD (1280x1080) (16x9)
HD (1280x1080)
None
29.97
DVCPRO HD 1080p30

If I bring a 7D conversion into a HPX170 sequence the 7D is a green render but looks interlaced with bad jaggies
If I bring the HPX into the 7D timeline the HPX is a green render but the scale is now 150 to fill the screen. The 7D still looks bad in the same way.

Clearly a setting is wrong with my match settings or a conversion. I have run cross checks but can't seem to find the element that I am missing.

I don't understand why 1080 can be 1920x1080 1440x and 1280x can you explain?

1920x1080 is FULL RASTER...meaning full sized. 1440x1080 is THIN RASTER, or "Anamorphic." It is squeezed so that the data rate will be lower. Just like feature films are on film...Cinemascope, for example. DVCPRO HD is even MORE squeezed at 1280x1080. It is the only format with those dimensions.

Cut EVERYTHING in a 1920x1080 ProRes sequence. It will all look right.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Right on Shane-

Many thanks as always ...

When I choose sequence settings Apple ProRes 1920x1080 30 the sequence setting read

HDTV 1080i (16x9)
Square
None
29.97
Apple ProRes 422

is that correct?

Yes.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Even though it say 1080i ? interlaced? doesn't seem right ...

So it seems as the culprit was Compressor. Or at least my execution of its use. As I have employed the EOS plugin- the apple 9 settings are

1920 1080
Apple ProRes444
29.97

The 7D footage looks great in all test sequences. And now when I use match settings the sequence is no longer interlaced (nor the look of the footage).

By my eye and brain (working w/out tools again) the 1280x1080 sequence setting seems to look the best and compliment all of the formats to their fullest potential...

You still technically have the wrong codec setting (ProRes 444).

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.