Curious what direction LAFCPUGers are going? Remain with FCP or switch?

Looking what direction LAFCUG members are going as they're editing tool of choice?

Continue editing with FCP 7 but learn FCPX and wait until it matures?

Completely switch to Avid or Premiere Pro with their great promo going on right now?

Continue editing with FCP 7 but learn(or already using) Avid and/or Premiere Pro?

We are going to completely switch to either Adobe or Avid, though most likely we will have combination of both. As an independent Post house, there are advantages to not just locking yourself down to one tool.

We will continue to use FCP 7 through the first 13 episodes of our current PBS series in production and then make the switch before starting Episode 14.

In the meantime, I'll be testing and I'll have my editors testing both Premiere and Avid to decide which will be our primary editing tool. Once decided they will cut shorter projects or revisions of shorter FCP projects to get used to the tool.

Whatever they don't choose to be the primary editing tool (Adobe or Avid), we'll install at least one copy of the other in our theater suite so we have options for projects.

Autodesk also sent us an evaluation copy of Smoke 2012 so I'm going to be testing that to see if there's a viability and need for us to run that as a finishing tool in combination of either edit too as both support Smoke.

FCP X will not be in use in our facility. We will have one copy on an iMac in case someone brings us a project for some help but we will not be incorporating it into our workflow at all.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

As Walter (but on a far smaller number) my Macs will continue to run FCP 7

However they all have the full Adobe Creative Suite Master Collection anyway because we do a lot of animation, design and web work in addition to Film & TV and I've been running Premiere for clients and for broadening my skills since CS4. (I actually used to edit on Media 100 with Adobe Premiere 4.2.1 back in the day!)

Currently I'll hold off installing Avid as it makes me spit more than FCPX (having used Avid since 1994) but may get a copy of the 64bit Media Composer (when they release a stable version).

FCPX will stay as a curio and I'll learn it for the sake of the external jobs (as I do with Avid) and to be able to continue to help out at LAFCPUG and will see how (if) Apple make reparations for their silly and ill-considered half-baked release. I hope they pull it out of the bag but who knows.

I may also have to have a look at Smoke as after talking with Grant Kay at the London SuperMeet I think Autodesk are chasing a bit of the NLE market by making interesting changes to the Editor in Smoke.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

FCP is EOL, so we must all transition. Software and OS support for FCP will wane as fresh product sales have been already brought to a complete halt. FCP X is currently not a viable option, whether I like it or not, which is secondary. The absolute inability to work in a collaborative environment far outweighs that decision more than anything else unless you are cutting in a little island universe all by yourself. Also, the inability to work with the client's tapes dictate another NLE. Should someday FCP X work in a collaborative environment, both in a shared editing environment, as well as being able to interface with other professional tools, then I may look at how efficient FCP X is for offline editing, and whether it is able to organize media for use in a long form project as well as whether that machine is efficient for any online/finishing work.

In the meantime, I am probably going to brush up my skills in Avid, then Premiere, and in the process will decide which is my preferred NLE, although at the moment it seems to be Avid, which is a more robust tool, although it may go through a period of instability as it transitions into a 64 bit platform. Cutting and working in FCP definitely has been a fun ride, and I enjoyed every moment of it.



www.strypesinpost.com

Walter, I will be curious about your testing of Premiere Pro.
I have just spent a little time with it in the last couple of days and I am concerned.

We cannot use FCPX due to the lack of multicam, which we use a lot.
But I have learned that Premier's implementation of multicam only does 4 cameras tops.
Not good for us. There is some kind of work around involving ganging of multiple groups but
that doesn't give you real multicam. I do not yet know if more features within Premier multicam are
hobbled as well. For a professional product, there is no excuse to limit multicam to 4 clips.

Also don't like the trim window pop up. It's like the old trim window Media 100 as far as I can tell.
It just feels clunky. Just like Media 100 did back then.
Maybe there is a way to trim directly in the sequence but I haven't discovered it yet.

Overall it seems like too many keystrokes or steps are required to do the simple functions such as trim, adding and modifying
transitions. But maybe you have a different opinion.

Also a note about their forums.
In looking for answers to various "switching" questions it appears to me that their forums are heavily trafficked by
hobbyists. Asking questions regarding professional features like multicam will elicit many fanboy type responses critical
of even asking the questions. However, it does appear that there are Adobe employee moderators who will answer questions
within the limits of what Adobe allows them to reveal concerning future releases. Which at least appears to be more than what Apple will allow staffers to say.

Ben, with all due respect, if Avid makes you spit then maybe you need to see a doctor.

We don't use MultiCam so I can't really comment on that. I do know that Adobe is actively seeking out more input for the CS6 development and from what I've been able to discern it will be much more upgraded.

As for the editing functions, I just switched the Keyboard Layout to Final Cut Pro 7 and have just been editing most of the afternoon without even reading past the 2nd chapter in the training book I have. All the functions work the same as I would expect with the same keystrokes. A / B / S / F9 / F10 all work the same as before.

My only trip up so far has been getting used to the stereo tracks vs. mono tracks in the audio.

I don't know what to tell you about their forums. I know the folks I'm dealing with every day are definitely not hobbyists and we're all making serious evaluations of Adobe and Avid. I can say that editing on Premiere is really simple moving from FCP. Some things are different of course, but I could edit right now with a client in the room and be comfortable.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

Thanks for the response Walter,
I found your blog and will follow your progress there.

I read the post by Peter Blumenstock and found that interesting.

As you did, I also noticed that a lot of the interface or keystrokes/workflow seemed lifted right out of Final Cut.
Which is good thing.

I will continue to try Premiere out but already I see it can't be the end all for anybody using multicam.

Quote

Ben, with all due respect, if Avid makes you spit then maybe you need to see a doctor.

Thats ok Gary - I have special pills to take before, during and 1 week after an Avid edit.

I'm sure it's not just me, but I do seem to end up in facilities that have a lot of Avid's with bugs or media issues and it has somewhat marred my opinion of Avid and years of having to manage our old MC and MC Xpress along with the bugs and problems and Avid Assurance taking forever to come a swap out the ABVB or Meridian board or Adrenaline BoB or Nitris or Unity crashing and losing the last 8 hours work or AMA not working correctly or OMF not outputting without errors...

The Avid editors mantra when it crashes "thats just Avid for you" [no-one bats an eyelid and ignores it]

Can't say I've used MC5.5 on a Mac yet though all of the facilities I've been editing on the last few years run HP Z series - maybe it doesn't suffer as much when running on the Mac OS as it does on MS boxes.

Anyway Avid need to support the third-party higher-end broadcast boards like the AJA Kona 3G, matrox and Blackmagic offerings before I consider them again.


Premiere is slowly getting there - send some feedback to Adobe - they really do listen. CS6 I hope will be another major step forward.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

If you want better multicam, then post your request here. An actual, live Adobe employee reads it and I can pretty much bet there are a bunch of folks already asking for better multicam. Tell them what you need and how you need it. Just might see it in CS6.

[www.adobe.com]

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

I was reading Jeff's comments on Premiere. I will also be checking out Premiere and Avid. I'm not unfamiliar with Avid, although I have to learn more about how Avid deals with media (especially with tapeless formats as I found AMA a little wobbly in a complicated project). With Premiere, I'm not sure if you can export same as source (Aka current settings) without rendering, also, I need to know how Premiere fares in a collaborative post environment. The integration with AE is definitely a huge bonus.



www.strypesinpost.com

i have no need to upgrade at this point.
FCP 7 works well for me.
We'll see what Apple has instore for future versions of FCPX....

I would be curious to know how long support for camera formats will last now that FCP 7 is EOL.



www.strypesinpost.com

Small, non-urgent, projects will now be cut on Adobe Premiere (or Avid if I'm feeling adventurous). Bigger projects will continue to be cut on FCP 7 with a long-term transition to Avid.

My software:
Pro Maintenance Tools - Tools to keep Final Cut Studio, Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer and Adobe Premiere Pro running smoothly and fix problems when they arise
Pro Media Tools - Edit QuickTime chapters and metadata, detect gamma shifts, edit markers, watch renders and more
More tools...

I'm in the same boat. Sticking with FCP 7 and additionally switching to Premiere or Avid, with a large lean towards Premiere. I learnt it back in the Premiere 5 days, and hated it compared to FCP, but have seen it briefly in the past few years and noticed how much it had come to resemble FCP.

My main gripe is to do with compositing elements in the canvas, but I haven't had enough face time to make any judgements about what it can and can't do yet.

I've had calls from a few post houses and other editors here in my market asking which way I'm thinking of going, and we are trying to co-ordinate the jump a little so we all end up with compatible gear, and make the shift as painless as we can.

Same as Jude on my end. My first NLE was actually Adobe Premiere 4, so I have a bit of familiarity with it. But Avid is still a surer bet at this point given its history and market penetration, and also from personal experience, I feel Premiere is relatively easy to learn and Avid is not. So I'll be investing a lot more time in Avid to get up to speed.

Unless Apple makes some drastic changes, FCP won't even be in my future at all, once FCP7 becomes too hard to maintain as a current system. I'll probably keep a copy of FCP7 somewhere, but I wouldn't use FCPX in its current form even if it were free like iMovie.


www.derekmok.com

The good news is Avid and Adobe are compatible with each other for the most part. Can move projects between them. Just finished my first "real editing" day with Premiere and it made me laugh because I used all my normal FCP shortcuts. I still have a lot to learn but was able to cut a :60 PSA rough cut in about same time as I would have in FCP.

One thing I'm really liking is the single Effects Controls so everything about the clip is in one tab rather than a "Motion" and "Filters" tab like FCP 7. I still have things to figure out about the track targeting, but just editing on the thing is a breeze coming from FCP. Now I really need to hammer this thing with capture / edit to tape and much larger projects.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

Premiere has come a long way and you just cannot beat the Customer Care you get with Premiere. Adobe is on a mission to LISTEN TO US and implement features that make us more productive...period. I will probably pick up FCP X on the next release but my next project and forward will be cut in Premiere. I already spoke to Dave Helmly from Adobe (he Demo'd PP CS 5.5 for us at EA - blew me away)...Dave genuinely wants to know how they can make Premiere Pro better for Pro Editors.

For anyone interested, FXPHD has Premiere Pro CS5 courses (I am a student there). One course offering (PRM201 - Intermediate Premiere Pro CS5) is certainly for anyone interested in the new release, but will be especially useful for those editors using Final Cut Pro and interested in testing the waters with Premiere Pro. The course will start with an overview of the basic interface and the philosophy behind it. Native format support and workflow will be covered, including particular focus on RED R3D workflow and native support for DSLR footage.

[www.fxphd.com]

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Well, in Los Angeles you have two choices...Avid or FCP. FCP has been EOL, so back to Avid I go.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

A few thoughts...

How insane is a product when ALL the moderators on a forum DEVOTED to the software are not even considering using the new version? Epic Fail.

In Apple's defense though, it sounds like Premiere is basically FCP7, so maybe Apple saw that and decided there was no reason to fight Adobe for the same customers.

Speaking of which... if Adobe is smart, Premiere V6 should basically be EXACTLY what editors wanted from FCP8. Just rip off features wholesale! Make Apple sue you! They'd sell like hot cakes. I know I'd buy it in a heartbeat...

Oh, and me? Avid AND Premiere. Maybe I'll pirate FCPX

From what I've been told CS6 was already on the way to being the FCP 8 that we all wanted. And now they're getting a ton of input from FCP folks switching over so it should be quite the release. Keep in mind they are generally on a 12 month cycle so it would be most likely NAB 2012 before you see CS6 released.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

Well said Walter - on the $$$. I have it on good authority that at NAB 2012, Adobe will make editors very happy

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Will Adobe use the SuperMeet to announce it's release of Premiere CS6, one wonders. The irony would be well placed.

Hey...stranger things have happened. I used to attend "Orlando Avid User Group Meetings" here in Orlando before FCP took the market by storm. They changed their names to "Orlando Post Pros". Now that Apple is killing FCP, it only makes sense to adjust.

It really hit me last night what is going on when my school FXPHD made a statement students are asking for alternative training options to FCP.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Shane Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, in Los Angeles you have two choices...Avid
> or FCP. FCP has been EOL, so back to Avid I go.

In fact now in LA you have two choices: AVID or... AVID.

Getting my Avid handbook off the shelf.... Of well, I always wanted to get back to it anyway, so now I don't have a choice.

Yeah, a funny thing about this whole debacle is that it's really going to reinflate salaries for professional editors (and increase job security), because once again you'll have to use AVID to be taken seriously. (I think Premiere will gain some foothold, but there's too much industry cred for AVID to have Premiere taken seriously in LA yet. Which is not to say it's not better than AVID, just, in Hollywood, perception is king).

Maybe in 5-6 years, once people's memories fade, Fail Cut Pro eX might be something you have to know, but not in the near future, that's for sure.

P.S. When is the last time Apple made a product that was instantly UNcool? I'm sure a lot of this was planned for, but I don't think they were expecting THAT...

my story is like most people here.

i'll continue to use FCP7 for some time.
i LIKE FCP, i like working in it. i'm fast, and it seems pretty invisible to me as i work.
a lot of that's familiarity, but a lot of lot is the editing paradigm behind FCP, with it's fluid timeline.

so sooner or later i will have to move on.
i could drag it out for a year, at most, but eventually i'll have to change over.
i'm glad to hear that Avid had improved their timeline editing,
and Premiere is similar to FCP, with a simple cross-over.

for the work i do (a fair bit of long-form) Avid is probably the go.

i've been lucky enough to be able to say what platform i prefer to edit on, and not have it dictated to me.
it was fun being a bit of a rebel in the early days and saying "no i don't need Avid, i can cut this in FCP"
bit of a drag going back to avid, really.

so i'll try both Avid and Premiere
my guess is i'll buy Avid with the current round of discounting, and try Premiere as a demo, try to make a decision before end of Sept.



nick

We won't get fooled again.

Switching to CS5.5 simply because we need an entire suite of high-end 64 bit apps to do all the things that FCS did before it got EOL'ed.

Meet the new boss.....

We'll see, but so far the transition couldn't be easier, and most importantly, it's a much safer bet that there's a future with Adobe.

Shane, so what will you be grading with, now that Color is RIP? Resolve or Symphony?



www.strypesinpost.com

Spoke with my local Washington DC VAR - company who's set up and sold us our FCP Systems (macs and software) for a decade. He's sold several thousand systems to government and business operations and said he spoke to someone nearly at the top of Apple's corporate sales chain who told him "he'd love to keep selling FCP 7 -- but his hands are tied -- that he can't understand the companies decision either."

The VAR business said he had a government agency that wanted to add 100 licenses of FCP 7 - and Apple won't make an exception at 1000 bucks a station - that's a 100 grand that Apple says - sorry we don't want your cash.

This is an agency with more than 100 seats already in place and they are now forced to find another solution - retrain their editors - an enormous cost them (and of course us the taxpayers).

They'd be glad to switch to FCP X - but it doesn't do what they need with no indication when it will (and in the meantime companies can't expand what they have and so much switch. Is anyone at Apple listening?

I'm not sure why they don't offer FCS3 on the App Store as Separates - they could always put a disclaimer and say there is no official support as its legacy software...



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]