Mixed Media Disaster

I have inherited a doc to finish because the editor had to move on to another project. More specifically it is a doc and I am handling the fine cut notes along with seeing it through sound and color and then delivering.

Specs of the doc.
The film was put into a sequence set at XDCAM EX 720p 24 timeline at 1280x720 at 23.98

Media in the Timeline.
DVCPRO HD 720p 60 at 23.98 960 x 720
Apple Pro Res 422 LT at 24 480 x 360 (archival footage that will be replaced when purchased)
DVCPRO HD NTSC at 23.98 656 x 480 (captured off of dvds)
HDV 1080i 60 at 29.97 1440 x 1080
H.264 at 24 480 x 360
Apple Int. Codec at 29.97 1440 x 1080
H.264 at 10 (yes that is what I said) 480 x 360
There are over 30 stills used varying from 2k to 7k in the timeline.

It seems as if the person who had the project before me just thought that you could through everything in the timeline and when locked, export a qt out at 23.98 and call it delivered. They are thinking of finishing on HDCAM SR With that said....

My question is even if they were to export a QT right now at 23.98, due to all that mixed frame rates in the timeline, aren't they going to have problems passing QC in the long run due to cadence issues especially if they have to do down converts? Everything should have been transcoded to 23.98 before editing, right? What other problems could lie ahead.

They are planning to color right in FCP due to budget constraints which helps me because on-lining this for color would be a complete nightmare. There are a ton of speed ramps, composites and filters used.

Any thoughts.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

If cadences are off on the master those QC guys will kick it straight back at you with a six page report detailing how horrified they are. And cadence issues get a level 3 tag. Any "3" is an automatic fail.

I've had QC fail me on a feature where a PA had left a radio headset in frame - even though the headset was lying around next to some stereo equipment set dressing.

They are brutal. And there are hits out on those guys.

Sorry. It sound like you are in for a whole bunch of transcoding.

Best,

Harry.

I have two responses here.

First, yeah, all these formats will be a nightmare at the delivery stage.

But, the second response is that if a project is allowing 480x360, 10fps media in it...was it ever going to pass QC in the first place?

You need to have a conversation with the producers. This is not just an editing question; this is a producing/directing question. I've used YouTube captures as clips before, but only when the project is heading strictly towards internal promo-land. I'm not convinced this mess of media can be made to pass broadcast QC no matter what you do.


www.derekmok.com

Thank you guys so much for responding. This has been an up hill battle. I told them that this needs to be addressed ASAP! Their mentality was... lets finish the edit get a locked picture and then worry about it. Not my way of doing business. The frustrating part is that because their editor decided to make short cuts they expect me to do the same. I have been in rendering hell. Most of the time when I try to render I get an "error out of memory" or "codec not available".

When I first received the drive I went through the timeline to flag any and all problematic shots. The pics that were over 2k in resolution size I had to make a quicktime video bring back that clip, drop in and remove the 2k jpeg. Like I said there were over 30 shots and I know that I didn't get them all. Not to mention the fact that I have quite a bit of h.264 in the timeline.

I had explained to them that I had to problem shoot all of the issues (there are over 2000 clips in the edit). They quickly got frustrated with me saying that their other editor didn't have a problem why am I having a problem. GRRRRRRRR!!!

One of my very first questions to them was "How were they intending on finishing the film? What format? They didn't have a clue. They were thinking HDCAM but not too sure. Couldn't believe that this wasn't thought of before they started to shoot.

They weren't too happy when I told them that it didn't matter how good it looked playing off the timeline, if they can't get their film out of FCP then they don't have a film. I informed them that a distributor wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. I also told them that this could cost them a sale with a distributor.

This is just the tip of the iceberg of the headaches that I have been dealing with. Just was looking to build my case to show them that I am not wrong.

Thank you for both for responding. Derek, you always jump in and give my your professional advice and share your wisdom. It goes a long way brother!!!

Best,

Jeff

"Their mentality was... lets finish the edit get a locked picture and then worry about it."

at this late stage, that is actually the better option, IMO.

if it is close to locked, just concentrate on the edit.
lock the pic, and then you will know exactly what you are dealing with,
so LESS trouble shooting for you.

there will still be a LOT of trouble shooting, but if you finish the edit first, no double handling.


"if a project is allowing 480x360, 10fps media in it...was it ever going to pass QC in the first place?"

if it in context as rare footage, then yes.

however, that 10fps is something H264 can throw up in FCP.
i think when you transcode it may be that is isn't really 10fps.

i had a bunch of that on a recent project.
QC wasn't an issue as the film was "about" user-generated material that had been up-loaded to YouTube.

it's all about context.


"There are over 30 stills used varying from 2k to 7k in the timeline."
"I had to make a quicktime video bring back that clip, drop in and remove the 2k jpeg"

wouldn't you have been better off simply re-sizing a copy of the jpg?
or was the 2k size needed for a blow-up?


==========================================================

i haven't had to deal with something like that,
but i imagine one approach would be to use the Media Manager to COPY the used media with 2 second handles.
then you would have a lot less media to transcode.

in your MM'd project, sort in the browser by Compressor / Frame size and put all the different clips in separate bins.
Media Manage those bins to MOVE them into separate folders.
then you can deal with the media in a more sensible manner.

in FCP, i'd probably colour code the various forms of media to help with the eventual eye-matching that will need to take place.


another option is to simply take the lot into AVID which can deal with differing frame rates much better than FCP.
it wouldn't be as simple as that, may need some transiting of some materiel to avid friendly codecs.

again this is something you;d do after you've locked off.


nick

Great advice Nick.

"there will still be a LOT of trouble shooting, but if you finish the edit first, no double handling."
Good point!!!

"wouldn't you have been better off simply re-sizing a copy of the jpg?
or was the 2k size needed for a blow-up?"

Typically yes but there was a lot of animation done so it was easier to export and make it into a clip rather than change the resolution and have to reanimate the jpeg.

"however, that 10fps is something H264 can throw up in FCP.
i think when you transcode it may be that is isn't really 10fps.
i had a bunch of that on a recent project.
QC wasn't an issue as the film was "about" user-generated material that had been up-loaded to YouTube."

Good point but the fact that H264 was even in the timeline was causing enough headache.

Regarding the Media Managing the footage, that is a great approach and I will conduct a few tests first. However knowing full well that FCP's MM is troublesome, I just know with all of the different codecs and frame rates there I am worried that it will crash and lock up during the process.

This is def. an exercise in patience.

Thanks Nick for your advice!!!

Jeff