Multi-cam shoot with 3 different formats..am I asking for trouble in the edit?

Have a possible gig coming up, likely will be a 3 camera shoot. Sony HDR-FX1, Sony Z1U, and a Panasonic HVX-200 are the cameras that we have available (that's what the shooters have easy access to). I also have access to a Canon 5D, and may use that for some interesting angles if I can.

Now, in thinking about the workflow of this from the standpoint of how these cameras will shoot--obviously the Sony's are HDV and would record to tape, the HVX is P2 based, and the Canon 5D, if used is CF based. I'll be editing in FCP 6, and my sense is that ProRes 422 is the way to go.

For shooting format, HD delivery is not a requirement (DVD is the deliverable), but I'd like to edit and master at least 720p if possible (for downconvert to SD DVD). I don't know the Sony's, but looks like they both shoot 1080i, and I don't see mention of progressive shooting in HD. Am I missing something?

From the standpoint of matching the look of all 3 (or 4) cameras, any tips from you guys? This is a relatively low-budget project, and so rental of another camera or two is probably out of the question, so I'll likely need to spend the time in post trying to get things at least in the right ballpark.

I'd welcome any tips you have to offer. Thanks.

From memory, you need your footage to match to set up a multi-cam, but that could just be framerate - I can't quite recall. If you can make your footage match completely via pores before cutting you should be fine.

On the other hand, if it's a no-to-low-budget, you could always go back to the old method, which was to sync and stack the clips on different tracks (cam 1 - V1, A1+A2 ; Cam 2 - V2, A3 + A4 etc) then reduce the size of all of them and rearrange them in the canvas so you can see all of them at once. Then just play and cut out the angles you don't want, only leaving the chosen clips on each track. Finally, after the cut is done, select all nd remove attributes to go fullscreen again.

thanks, Jude, for the reminder on the "old school" method of multi-cam. Good to have that option in my back pocket.

But, I'd hope that I could find a common ground in shooting format, so I don't have a jillion hours of transcoding before I can edit, though if that's what needs to happen, I guess I'll do it!

sorry, but for multiclip you HAVE to have:

A. same frame rate
B. same frame size

so your options are either:
Transcode, Old-School, or rent cameras


nick

Is it possible to multi-cam edit with two different formats of HD footage? MiniDV tape and AVCHD?

MiniDV isn't a HD format. Do you mean HDV? I would strongly advise making both into ProRes, same frame size, same frame rate before adding to the FCP multicam system.

Yes, I do mean HDV. How do I make both of them ProRes?

That depends if it's on card or tape. If it's on card you can get FCP to do it during log and transfer by setting your preferences to do that. If it's on tape, capture first, then convert to ProRes, then import. I use the 'batch' function in Mpeg Streamclip. Set and forget.

So, download Mpeg Streamclip.
Go to List > Batch List
Drag and drop all the files to be converted into the batch list
Choose Export to Quicktime
Choose a destination
Change the settings on the movie exporter to match what you need in your favourite flavour of ProRes
Click 'To Batch'
Click 'Go'

Then come back later and import the resulting files in FCP.

Or - if it's coming off tape, you can try this:

[library.creativecow.net]

Good question, I am having the same problem I filmed with 3 cameramen and 3 different camera's the first two have me 16/9 1080i film in mini DVD which I inputted into my IMAC computer. The third cameraman shot in what he "said" was HD but what I got was film that is 720p in 3/4 ratio which I cannot figure out how to upgrade it in FCP so that it will match the 16/9 1080i HD film the other two cameraman got me. I am ready to give up on the 3/4 ratio film but the problem is "that was the film that was shot from the best location".

I am trying to go back and forth and show the project in a sort of 3D effect with short shots of all three camera angles.

I would appreciate any suggestions.

720 is a HD frame size. Not sure why it's anamorphic in your timeline, unless you mean it was 720 x 480?

Oh yeah, der, nice catch Mike. Much simpler. I was thinking DSLR.

As far as matching the look of the cameras, I have a Sony Z1U and a Canon 7D, and in the few times where I've had to try to get them to match each other, it has been extremely difficult for me. The cameras handle colors very differently, and the times when I've had to do it, I have found that the best color grading I can do (using 3-way color corrector, that is), is only barely acceptable...where I hope the viewer won't notice. I'm sure I could do better using Color, but I haven't taken the time to try it yet.

As far as getting the cameras to look alike (frame rate/size/etc.), what I have found works best for me is to convert the Canon 7D footage in MPEG Streamclip to ProRes (unscaled 1920x1080), and when I import those clips into FCP, I change the sequence settings to match those of the clips, which gives me a ProRes sequence in 1920x1080 progressive. I then import my HDV clips from the Sony Z1U into the browser, and drop them onto the timeline, and let FCP do the conversion. I know I could go into MPEG Streamclip and convert the HDV files to ProRes using the same settings the Canon files were using, but my edits have been 90% Canon and 10% Sony, so the little bit of extra rendering I have to do in FCP isn't a big deal to me.

Basically, for me it looks better to make the Sony footage progressive than to make the Canon footage interlaced. Any thoughts on this from anyone else?

When I was first got the 7D, I was using the Sony for 90% and the Canon for 10%, and I was dropping the Canon footage onto my HDV timeline. The two cameras looked very different because the Sony had the interlaced "video" look, and the Canon had the progressive "film" look, and it was very obvious which camera was which. Using the method I described, when shot properly in good conditions, from the standpoint of frame rate/size/etc., it is very hard for someone (who doesn't already know) to tell which is which.

That's all I know. I am phasing out the Sony, so hopefully this won't be an issue for me much longer.

If anyone has a better way of doing this, I am open to hearing it. This is just what I have been doing.

Thanks!
Casey

I am new to matching frame size...my Canon camera imports at 1440X1080 and my panasonic imports at 1920X1080. How can I match the frame size for multi-cam editing?

The Canon should be importing at 1920x1080, the Sony imports at 1440x1080. When I import the Sony clips, they are enlarged 133.33% (and the distort is -33.33% as well). That being said, I wonder what would happen if I tried to bring the Canon clips down to 1440x1080 to match the Sony.

I don't actually use multi-cam editing in the way that FCP intended it to be. What I do is layer all my clips on the timeline, sync them up, and on the motion tab, shrink them to 50% and move them around the screen so I can see all cameras at the same time. I haven't tried the multi-cam feature since FCP 5.1, and I don't know if this has changed, but I was only able to see the different cameras in my preview window, not on my full screen display (I have 2 - 23" cinema displays...one has FCP, the other has the output). I did this so I could see the cameras on my full screen display, so they are larger. I simply play the timeline, razor all tracks and then delete the unused tracks. Not saying my way is the best way...it's just what I do If there's a better way, I am certainly open to it.

Casey

> I was only able to see the different cameras in my preview window, not on my full
>screen display

Totally doable. I have that mapped to one of the function keys.



www.strypesinpost.com

I'll have to try that new fangled multi-cam sometime...they must have changed something since the last two versions

I did a quick test, putting 1440x1080 Sony HDV clips on a 1920x1080 timeline, and putting 1920x1080 Canon clips on a 1440x1080 timeline.

After adjusting for the correct frame size/aspect ratio (so the image filled the screen properly), I did not see one pixel's difference between the clips in either test, comparing the same Sony clip on a 1920 timeline and a on 1440 timeline, and the like was also true with the test with a Canon clip.

It's very difficult to match HDV and H.264, unless you really dumb down the Canon, which you don't really want to do. I much prefer the look of progressive too. The Canon is always going to look a lot more high end than the ZU1.

Sorry, I was not at FCP 7 when I replied to the post. Yea, map "show multiclip angles" to your keyboard. I'm not sure how much they have changed... Next to those, there are "show match frame in multiclip angle" and "reveal master multiclip", and of course, you want to have "sync: open" mapped to a keystroke. I can't stand the default multicam keys as they turn off the auto select shortcuts, which I use all the time. And besides, tapping the Wacom pen to switch camera angles is pretty efficient.



www.strypesinpost.com

Hi Everyone:

I use a 2010 Macbook Pro 17" i7 Intel processors, running Snow Leopard (10.6.7) & FCP 7, 2.6 GHZ, 512MB video card, 4GB ram.

I just did a 3-camera live band shoot with three different Canon cameras: 60D, VIXIA and a Rebel (20p with the last one). Yes, they all look different, but I "cheat" with adding sepia, grayscale etc. with the VIXIA & Rebel. Here's my issue:

I have processed/reformatted all the clips with Streamclip into Pro Res 422 format, but things are still "hanging" inexplicably in FCP 7 WAY too much. I have a mastered audio track (48khz) underneath the 3 layers of video, and I've synced up the video clips to that (is that called "old school"?). So why is the freaking video hanging so much, endless renders every time I do a transition or FX, etc? Do I need to reinstall FCP? Reinstall the OS? WTF? I just bought my new-ish Mac in hopes of speeding up the whole process too.

Input/suggestions/recommendations please!

m

I would check the sequence settings to see if the processing mode is in 8 bit YUV or 10 bit YUV. 10 bit requires more computing power.