End of FCP??

so fcp 7 won't run on Lion?
jeeze.
evarita>}?

Well...in 4-5 years, you'll have a bunch of people pointing and laughing at you...like we do to people who use FCP 4.0.1 and Matrox RTMAC...or FCP 3 on a G3.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

What the guys said. You can't support FCP unless you have the source codes, and you are able to invest lots of money into R&D. There will be newer camera drivers in a couple of years that will not be coded for Lion/Snow Leopard and those would probably not support FCS.

Then you have the back end of FCP which is pretty antiquated by today's standards- 32 bit carbon lib and QT 7. Not sure how long FCP will be supported by new Mac OS's, but my guess is that it may not be supported in a year. Universal Binary is dead and people running FCP 6 cannot install it without some slight hackery in Lion, since Lion has dropped Rosetta. What I can remember was that the only thing universal binary about FCP 6 was the licensing module (that or the installer was UB).

So yea... It's dead.



www.strypesinpost.com

Also, other NLEs are already outstripping it in terms of being able to work with different codecs natively - like Premiere will cut mpeg, AVCHD and so on without needing a transcode or rendering for hours.

What we really wanted was improvements in speed and codec handling, less time spent transcoding and rendering, 64 bit. What we got was, in my opinion, a train wreck.

I love FCP 7, but it's already dead.

Oh, it does run on Lion though, in case that was a misconception.

It runs on Lion, but it may not run in OS 10.8 Persian Kitty or 10.9 Singapura.



www.strypesinpost.com

FCP 7 runs on Lion on my end.

"Persian Kitty". I think you might have something there. Where Apple seems to be heading, you''re not that far off.

thanks everybody. As usual I love your expertise and learn so much. Believe it or not I just had to buy FCP7, again, (long story) for an editing gig.
Work is work right.?
So that's why all the questions. Guess I'll keep it on Snow Leopard for awhile.
Went to a recent Avid 6 demo. They are all about wooing FCP users, 64bit and 3D.
No changes to any tools.
Here's to the New Year!
much love to all
evarita

Fantasrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone tell me why you can't just continue to
> use FCP 7? Why even bother with FCP X? Just
> because apple doesn't support something anymore,
> why can't we just support it ourselves?

Because at some point you have to move forward. Better to move forward on YOUR terms rather than waiting until the software / hardware completely dies and you have to rush into a new decision.

So when we saw FCP X and the immediate removal of FCP 7, I made the decision to move forward with both Adobe Premiere Pro and Avid. Both now support all of our hardware so the only change we have to make is to get the new software workflow going.

Yes, you absolutely can continue to run FCP 7 and we still have it installed on all of our systems. But at some point you will have to leave that software to go to something else. It's your decision when to do that. I chose to do that sooner rather than later.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

How do you like Premier Pro on a Mac?
is it as good as Avid?
thx

evarita Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you like Premier Pro on a Mac?
> is it as good as Avid?
> thx

One is not better than the other. They both have strengths and weaknesses which is why we have both installed in our facility and are running the right one for the particular project at hand.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

Just curious, Walter, are there as many Avid editors in your area as there are FCP ones?



www.strypesinpost.com

evarita Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Went to a recent Avid 6 demo. They are all about
> wooing FCP users, 64bit and 3D.
> No changes to any tools.

NO changes huh? Adding support for four third-party capture card makers doesn't change the tool? No longer needing ONLY Avid hardware to capture/output isn't a change? Native 3D workflows without third party plugins isn't a change? Ability to address more than 4GB of RAM isn't a change? Able to deal with large projects and large bins...multiple bins...being open is huge.

The biggest thing about MC6 is the total re-write of the app to be 64 bit. That was a lot. Adding third party support is also huge. More changes are coming...they had to start with 64 bit first.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

strypes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious, Walter, are there as many Avid
> editors in your area as there are FCP ones?

Atlanta was an Avid town before FCP got here so there are tons of Avid editors and they are very excited to see third party support so they can transition from FCP to Avid very easily.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

Shane Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> evarita Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Went to a recent Avid 6 demo. They are all
> about
> > wooing FCP users, 64bit and 3D.
> > No changes to any tools.
>
> NO changes huh? Adding support for four
> third-party capture card makers doesn't change the
> tool? No longer needing ONLY Avid hardware to
> capture/output isn't a change?

Third Party hardware adoption is THE BIGGEST change that Avid offered. How you can say "no changes" is beyond me. All that hardware we've using through the years with FCP are now cutting Avid projects in two of our suites. HUGE!

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

Whoa guys. I read the part of Evarita's post about "no tools being changed" as relating to the last big AVID screw up, which was the introduction of the "smart tool" which led to no end of griping from the AVID loyal, me included.
I didn't think it had anything to do with there being no changes to AVID "the tool" as you both seem to have assumed.
The trim/edit/fx mode tool is the heart of the AVID UI and not changing that is probably their best non-decision going forward.

Breaking the hardware lock-in was something AVID fought 'til it could fight no more. Just like they fought having to support non-AVID drives. Apple's recent moves means to me that they are now just part of a triumvirate of companies (Hereafter known to me as the A-Holes. Because it's those holes down which your money will go. Badoomp, ZING!) whose past behaviour makes any long term commitment or investment questionable. AVID and Adobe have promised and shown good things but there's still all those terrible decisions of years past to consider. Apple now has the most recent terrible decision to live down but none of them are blameless and none of them have a lock on the future.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Quote
(Hereafter known to me as the A-Holes. Because it's those holes down which your money will go. Badoomp, ZING!)

I love that!

Michael Horton
-------------------

Michael Horton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I love that!


Finally some recognition for my one useful and yet financially non-viable skill - mildly humorous editing related quips. Wait till I build up some material about the compositing companies...Nuke, Alias, c'mon theres gotta be tons of material in those two alone.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Nick Meyers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Evan Schectman (sp?) a post facility owner and
> FCPX beta tester has said he will move his
> facility over to FCPX on it's next release.
>
> i think it will get a bit more pro in the not-too
> distant future.

This guy?

[www.evanschechtman.com]

Doesn't seem to be a major player. I don't know what all the buzz about him doing this is. It'd be like me saying "I'm moving all of Little Frog Post to Premiere Pro!" Small potatoes. Not a major player. Although, I was one of the people that lead the charge of FCP in this town, and by blog did get attention...so...maybe.

Now, when Bunim/Murray announce they are going away from FCP and embracing Avid MC6...THAT'S newsworthy...

[www.avid.com]


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Shane Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This guy?
>
> [www.evanschechtman.com]
> chechtman/Home.html
>
> Doesn't seem to be a major player. I don't know
> what all the buzz about him doing this is.

Um, no. Evan Schectman is the founder of Outpost Digital

[www.outpostdigital.com]

and @radical.media

[www.radicalmedia.com]

He has over 100 FCP workstations in multiple locations, does a lot of very high end broadcast and independent film work, and he's one hell of a nice guy. We had him at our Atlanta Cutters meeting in July of last year and are looking to have him back soon.

Of course the announcement of him switching over is a little bit tempered by the fact that he essentially has the entire Apple engineering team at his disposal so that makes the leap to FCP X a little less scary. The rest of us won't get that level of support and help.

But the fact that he's willing to commit his entire company to the product is a big announcement if he follows through and makes it work.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

...and he grew up in Merrick, (Long Island) New York, where I grew up. Can't be too bad of a guy

Ahhh....well that would be newsworthy. he does high end broadcast and film work, and thinks FCX will still work for him? That's bold.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Somebody has to take that bold step. Ask Neil Armstrong how that works. I guess maybe that's the difference between East coast people, and West coast people. Not that either one is right or wrong. Just different in the way they look at things. Right now I'm sitting closer to the West...

[Ask Neil Armstrong how that works.]

He had a suit he could trust, made by little old ladies in New Hampshire, as I recall.

- Loren

Today's FCP keytip:
Set a motion effect keyframe instantly with Control-K!

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

[He had a suit he could trust, made by little old ladies in New Hampshire, as I recall.]

Good point!

If someone actually bought FCP 7 the code would still need to be completely rewritten, a major and time consuming commitment. Not sure why Apple didn't go this route since they had the personnel and money to do so. But they went in the direction they did and that is that.
If there really is a final nail to the coffin I believe it will be determined by the type of 'major' update we will see for FCX this spring. If the most important features are restored then there will be little reason to bail and provide hope for further improvements in the future and confidence that Apple is behind its own software. If only minor bugs are fixed there will be a line on the plank trying to jump ship. I griped as much as anyone when X was released and couldn't understand the cheering in those initial videos shot when X was first introduced. What the hell were they cheering for? Since then, once I got my head around the basic concept differences in X, I found it to be fairly intuitive. While I do not do much multi cam work I certainly need external monitoring and a bunch of other left out features. Not fond of the different keyboard shortcuts, keyframing protocols and plenty more but right now, I have Studio 3 and X and am just biding my time to see what X may become and moving on with the work and clients I have.
Steve

steve-sharksdelight

Well personally I already spent a significant amount of dosh switching everything to Adobe so I could learn it, and I'm already spending my (currently precious) downtime time learning that, so the next release of FCPX would have to be mind blowing for me to find the money and time to squeeze it in now.

Also, several people did try to buy the code for FCP7 and were rejected. They preferred it dead.

<If someone actually bought FCP 7 the code would still need to be completely rewritten, a major and time consuming commitment. Not sure why Apple didn't go this route since they had the personnel and money to do so. But they went in the direction they did and that is that. >
Read the book"Steve Jobs" and Apples direction becomes crystal clear.
Its all about marketing and for the "masses".
World domination.....

Jude Cotter Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
> Also, several people did try to buy the code for
> FCP7 and were rejected. They preferred it dead.

Again, Apple didn't necessarily "prefer it dead." They did not want to have to license back any and all intellectual properties / technologies that are still used in FCP X that were developed as part of the original Studio Suite. That's part of business. It's a bad business decision to sell off something that includes elements you're still using and then have to license back.

Apple is and will continue to be a consumer company, they are not concerned at all about Enterprise and if you ask a lot of larger companies that were completely Apple up until June, you will find that the feeling is now mutual.

Quite honestly, I'm not sure the executives at Apple really care, because they continue to dominate the consumer market and as other's have mentioned in this thread, Steve Jobs made it abundantly clear in that book that all he cared about was the consumer market once he came back to Apple. He detested having to deal with Enterprise solutions because those customers would tell Apple what they needed to do. In the consumer world, Steve and Apple can dictate what the consumer needs, even if the consumers don't know it yet.

In the end, Apple has made a very very smart business decision to focus on the consumer, the kid with the video camera, the guy who wants to make movies at home, and everyone else who wants to edit their own videos and maybe develop a career in this industry. There are millions of them across the globe while there are thousands of us who make a living doing this.

If you're waiting for Apple to "listen to the pros" that ain't gonna happen. You just have to accept what Apple gives you and what they allow the third parties to develop. I'm sure you've all noticed that Apple hasn't really done anything with FCPX accept allow more ways for third party developers to create add-ons to do what many folks clamor for. Just like the iPad is a very nice device and then you add any apps you want to make it do what you want it to do. It doesn't run Flash, but complaining to Apple will do nothing at all, but as a consumer you accept that it's a slick device that works really well and I guess I can do without Flash.

Just like FCP X. It's a slick software that does what it does quite well and if you can live without all those extra features that nobody needs (according to Apple) then you are good to go.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

>It doesn't run Flash

Just a point to add... There is an app- the Puffin browser that let's you run flash on iOS. Doesn't run too well, but it runs flash. Flash for mobile on the other hand is dead, and the post humus is because it tried to do too many things, as a result, it consumed too energy inefficient and it was unpredictable on mobile platforms, and today, html5 is coming up as a very good replacement for Flash. The funny thing about this is that at one time, Google was toying with HTML 5 on YouTube, but today, the default page is flash, with an HTML fallback.



www.strypesinpost.com