Another nail in the coffin

sad...

[www.thestreet.com]

why is it sad? things always change plus their reasoning in the text supplied by your link seems more than reasonable IMO . .

Yeah, not sad so much as necessary. This sort of collaberative workflow just cant be done using the current version of Final Cut. Maybe the next one, but not this one.

Michael Horton
-------------------

Sad that professional editors/plug in filter creators/professional trainers invested so much time and faith in an company that didn't listen to their client base - sad for them - not Apple - they're doing fine with their i-line of everything mobile.

Quote
Andy Field
Sad that professional editors/plug in filter creators/professional trainers invested so much time and faith in an company that didn't listen to their client base

This isn't a new story, and Apple didn't do anything that half a dozen other "pro" companies didn't do before this. People who think Apple screwed pros have a short memory regarding Avid even as they switch back to them. There's always a risk when a post facility goes all in with a particular company. This is only the most recent, not even the worst.

Bunim/Murray had no real other option from a facilities POV other than to avoid upgrading, but sometimes that's not possible. Premiere can't compete with Avid on collaborative workflows or even multicam, both of which are necessary for a large post house.

Even if they had waited until the next FCPX release and were satisfied with multicam, SAN integration, and video output, I seriously doubt they would have gone with FCPX though. They rolled the dice on FCP back in the day when they were probably a lot smaller. I think they would probably want to make sure that FCPX worked well in a post-house environment before committing to it again. Especially since the "wounds" of its release are still less than a year old.

As it is, Avid would probably have to screw things up royally in the next couple of years for FCPX to stand a chance with any facility who switched away.

Andy

FCP X needs to do a LOT to compete with Avid in the upper tiers of the pro market, but I'm not sure if Apple is even interested. Their focus seems to be on the lower to middle end of the spectrum. A very different direction from when they acquired Keygrip. Not sure if Pixar's success during that period fueled part of the drive to compete on the high end. But it's a very different landscape from the 90s when computerized film technology was largely about expanding the possibilities and challenging the linear editors and flatbeds of the day. Today, there is an expanding bottom end in the industry- the DSLR market, the iPhone user market, the GoPros, etc.. Most of the users of these devices tend to work either alone or in small companies. Most of the work done in this area do not require multicam or serious collaborative tools, or workflows with the vfx department or the color correction room. FCS 2, with the acquisition of Color, and FCServer, was the last time Apple decided to go in guns blazing on the high end market. Both these acquisitions are dead and Phenomenon/Shake never materialized. It takes massively more R&D to cater to the workflow and precision requirements at the upper tier of the market. And I think Apple learnt that.



www.strypesinpost.com

Quote
strypes
It takes massively more R&D to cater to the workflow and precision requirements at the upper tier of the market.

Are we flattering ourselves about this? For example, making the video filters 10-bits instead of 8-bits is no biggie for programmers. It's easier than making finesses in the GUI. Apple didn't have to invent codecs, just to license them. Etc. Most needs of the upper tier of this market were easy to understand and execute. Their needs actually evolve slower than amateur demands. Apple willed against FCP8 because it would appear clunkier -- more exposed gears -- and sell worse than FCPX. It does take massive effort to make a heavy tool appear light, but I don't regard that as R&D.

Dennis Couzin
Berlin, Germany

I'm talking about the support for 3rd party devices, timecode, edgecode, interchange formats, accurate color monitoring, workflow support, media management, accurate real time playback, etc... Pros have all sorts of needs- multicam, dual system sound, mixed frame rates, mixed resolution, tens of thousands of hours of footage to sift through, support for 10 year old "industry standard" formats, and they need all that done in high quality and as fast as possible.



www.strypesinpost.com

Agreed, those are the kinds of capabilities professionals need in an editing program. FCP7 already fulfilled most of the needs. Rewriting the program to run faster in newer computers is not a major R&D task. It's what programmers can do knowing little or nothing about video (or even about mathematics). What detoured Apple was its vision of warm-and-fuzzy software (incompatible with the toolbox you describe) rather than R&D stinginess.

Dennis Couzin
Berlin, Germany

>What detoured Apple was its vision of warm-and-fuzzy software (incompatible with the toolbox
>you describe) rather than R&D stinginess.

I agree. I mentioned R&D in response to people thinking that a software can continue with little or no R&D. Things change all the time and improvements make the tool better.

The warm and fuzziness of the software is the death knell for a professional toolset. Many softwares have been crippled by over ambition- Flash for Mobile, MobileMe, etc... The pro software has to be designed for speed and performance over ease of use. I'll take the fundamental design of having an open bin in Avid, which taps into RAM. In FCP, that process is similar to having a project open. This fundamental difference meant that while an Avid editor only has to close the bins he doesn't need, the FCP editor needs to juggle with having multiple FCP projects to prevent a bloated FCP project and loading too much data into RAM. Of course, we are looking at 64 bits, but I can't help but notice the numerous "beauty" features put into the design of FCP that may end up crippling the stability of the software on long form projects.



www.strypesinpost.com

FCP was shopped around two to three years ago to private equity firms, according to a knowledgeable source. We probably should have seen this coming.

Another high hope of mine is that some major talents in the FCP team acquire the rights to the present FCP7 code, start a new company and build the app into what we expect. So charge more if you have to, Avid does. And Apple can still profit from a licensing arrangement while they go after the iMovie crowd. We'll call "our" product Phoenix Cut Pro.

There's an ease and friendliness in FCP7 editing which neither Premiere Pro nor Avid achieves, in my view. And I trained in Avid, I'm fond of it, and I still use it for some clients. There's just something mellower and less severe and less visually cluttered.

Maybe we should start a Kickstarter Buyout project?

- Loren

Today's FCP keytip:
Set a motion effect keyframe instantly with Control-K!

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

>FCP was shopped around two to three years ago to private equity firms, according to a
>knowledgeable source.

This is news to me. Where did this come from? I remember there being some rumors about Apple selling FCP, but rumors could have been started by anyone, including rival companies.



www.strypesinpost.com

Loren Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCP was shopped around two to three years ago to
> private equity firms, according to a knowledgeable
> source. We probably should have seen this coming.
>
> Another high hope of mine is that some major
> talents in the FCP team acquire the rights to the
> present FCP7 code, start a new company and build
> the app into what we expect. So charge more if you
> have to, Avid does. And Apple can still profit
> from a licensing arrangement while they go after
> the iMovie crowd. We'll call "our" product Phoenix
> Cut Pro.
>
> There's an ease and friendliness in FCP7 editing
> which neither Premiere Pro nor Avid achieves, in
> my view. And I trained in Avid, I'm fond of it,
> and I still use it for some clients. There's just
> something mellower and less severe and less
> visually cluttered.
>
> Maybe we should start a Kickstarter Buyout
> project?
>
> - Loren
>
> Today's FCP keytip:
> Set a motion effect keyframe instantly with
> Control-K!
>
> Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
> Now available at KeyGuide Central.
> www.neotrondesign.com



"Phoenix Cut Pro" - priceless

bluey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Loren Miller Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Another high hope of mine is that some major
> > talents in the FCP team acquire the rights to
> the
> > present FCP7 code, start a new company and
> build
> > the app into what we expect.

Not going to happen. There are many Apple intellectual properties tied up in FCP X, the former Apple Color for example, that would force Apple to license back those properties for use in FCP X. While a lot of what we used in FCP 7 does not appear on the surface of X, there is still a lot of the technology developed for the former FCP still in use with the new.

When all of this broke I asked my contacts at Adobe why they didn't just buy Color and incorporate it into the suite. That's when I learned about all the properties / patents / licenses, etc... that Apple owns and still uses today with X.

I had originally hoped someone like The Foundry might purchase the old Studio Suite, but that looks like it would never happen as Apple is in no position to sell the product so long as they keep creating their "professional software lineup."

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

>That's when I learned about all the properties / patents / licenses, etc... that Apple owns and
>still uses today with X.

There are still elements of Shake in FCP X and Motion.



www.strypesinpost.com

Rick Young of Mac Video emailed Steve Jobs and asked if he could buy Final Cut Pro to develop and Steve emailed him back and said they were not interested in selling it.

------------------------
Dean

"When I see you floating down the gutter I'll give you a bottle of wine."
Captain Beefheart, Trout Mask Replica.

I did that too. Same answer.

Michael Horton
-------------------

So did my mom. Also same answer.



www.strypesinpost.com

if they had - this might not have happened

AVID to FCP and back