billing rates/freelance charges

Hi all - i'm currently negotiating a trailer/promo job for a 3 day conference in London, and was wondering what (any of) you would charge for a similar job. I'll be working with stock footage as well as voice-over supplied by the client, and be responsible for graphic elements/titles, sound mix, colour grade etc. The end product will be 2-3 minutes long and delivered encoded for web use.

The client 'has money' although i wouldn't want to high (or obviously) low-ball him . .

Any feed-back appreciated,
Bluey

That's a 'how long is a piece of string' question. It could be $500, it could be $500,000. It depends on the client, how stringent the requirements are for quality of the end product and so on. I mean, will it be simple text overlay in FCP, or fly-through 3d graphics out of AE with lots of organic sparkles being sprayed out of the nose of a dragon, for example? Will it be dropping voiceover under pictures without adjustment, or do you need to make the speaker sound like a robot on steroids?

The only way to go with a job like this is get as much information as you can about what the job will require, then figure out how long you think this will take you, and charge out your hours accordingly. It's always a painful part of the process.

yes the audio will be getting a treatment and the titles will have 'organic' composited elements . . . thank's for the feedback i'll roll with that . . .

Cheers,
Bluey,

What are everyones thoughts on half day vs full day rates? Do you charge a higher rate for a half day to entice them to book you for a full day?

I drop my rate once they're going for more than a day or so. But my minimum charge is for half an hour, so up to a day is all the same for me. Lots of camera people I know only do half day or full day though.

ive taken to just billing straight hourly. that way a client doesnt feel the need to hold me captive if booked for an 8 hour day and we're done in 5.

i had this one client who booked us for a full day on labor day (or was it memorial day? i forget) we were done in like six hours. but they made us stay there for two hours doing nothing - even though we got what we came for. and we all had family gatherings waiting for us at home.

Joe Riggs Wrote:
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What are everyone's thoughts on half day vs. full day rates? Do you charge a higher rate for a half day to entice them to book you for a full day?

When traveling to someone's premises to perform the work, I and most other professionals I know charge a per-diem that covers eight hours (including a meal break). If by being efficient or otherwise speedy we finish the job sooner, we are not penalized by receiving less compensation. Would anyone with a full-time job accept being sent home early by their employer and receiving pro-rated pay? I don't think so.

If a steady client is fairly certain they need only a half-day, I'll charge 60% of the normal per-diem rate for four hours.

I let clients talk me into half day billing if they're repeat customers, but usually no less. I mean, the day is blown on a half day booking; I've never been able to book that tightly (an advantage to working in a post house rather than running a boutique!). Jude's 500/day (US$500) is the high end of standard for seasoned editors around New England on corp/ed/indie docu. That includes PBS freelancers-- almost everybody there is these days except for a coterie of talents.

- Loren

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99% of the time I negotiate a flat project fee with 3 revisions built in. After that, it's $750 per day for UP TO 8 hours (that means 1 to 8 hours is booked @ $750).

I do not book "actual work time" like punching a clock. I am booking my time to one client so that another client cannot book me at the same time. If you book time and a client cancels, should he pay you? HELL YES. You could have turned down work because you were booked and that = LOST $$$ so keep in mind IT'S YOUR TIME you are booking...not actual WORK TIME.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Not sure how many projects you have done but after a while you can kinda package if you want. I have 3 people that go out and find contracts for me within a small local market.

What i have learned is that smaller clients like pre packaged pricing more than an hourly rate. But I am not as skilled as Joe or Jude who can probably get what ever they ask.

Keep in mind that we do the entire process from idea to delivery. So i might package a commercial like so....

4hrs prep. - 300.
4hr filming - 400.
4hr Edit - 550. tittles and basic graphics are included here.
2.5hr color - 250.
2hr audio - 250.
format - 100.
archive - 150.
V/O - 150.
1 on camera talent - 500.

I do not show these a la cart as this is what i would need to make a decent 30 commercial. I show the items in the package but not their individual price unless i am asked to. I know these are an acceptable rate because of averaged times from previous projects. I have done the same thing for 1500. before.
Like Jude said, it depends on spec.s and what type of client you have. If its a 1-2 location company with less than say 1mill in revenue i might quote the 2500. If its Foot Locker then i may quote 250k (hopefully someday).

I tell my sells people sometimes to quote +25% to this or that client as i can somewhat anticipate what they will need in a single consult.

Only you know how long it takes to do what is being asked and how difficult it will be.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Joey brings up the KIll Fee-- roughly 20% negotiated fee, Joey?

Usually waived on repeat clients, a perk larger houses can't afford to offer unless given plenty of notice.

- Loren

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Joey brings up the KIll Fee-- roughly 20% negotiated fee, Joey?

What are you talking about Loren? Please explain...

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I think Loren is talking about cancellation fees.



www.strypesinpost.com

Ah... I see..."Kill Fee"?? That's a bit harsh - never heard it referred to that way...ever is why the confusion. There is no "cancellation fee"...that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about industry respect for an Artist's time. You are booked for your skills so whether you work or not you get paid. That is a "Booking". That means you turn down jobs that need you during that same time period because you are "Booked". Any client worth their salt understands that when they book you, that they are paying for your skills and blocking out your time...ESPECIALLY my repeat clients. I never even have to ask for it. They know I am on stand-by for them on the booking and the payment is made regardless. This comes with paying your dues and earning the respect of your clients so they ask for you and pay your rate. I do not work with clients again if they cancelled and do not compensated me. My time is too precious.

FWIW = I have seen "Cancellation fees" manifest as a reduction of the normal day / project rate.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Joey-

It's called that in the static graphic arts field. I believe it is even in an official graphic arts guidebook that's released every year or so.

- Loren

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I'm about an hour away from a pretty active film/video industry and most of the jobs I book are in the $25-30/hr range, even at small post houses. I'd like to make double that and occasionally I do but not often enough for me to turn down jobs within that lower range.

The rates quoted by others is inspiring and my goal is to eventually make $500/day. Besides increasing my skill set (which I attempt to daily), what else can one do to book a client at the higher rate we deserve?

$500/day is *average* for seasoned professionals (over 20 years experience) in America. It is NOT the high end, which often depends on the market, like New York area, Chicago area, LA area, etc., where the same caliber of pro can charge upwards of $700-900 day -- usually way above union scale. And at the top of the pyramid there are extreme earners well above those rates, who work regularly with producers and directors who usually have forged working, trusting relationships with them for many years and many shows. Thus, you have Coppola/Murch, Eastwood/Cox, etc. and who knows what they pull in! Enough to renovate my condo digi-hovel, for sure. ;-)

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
Advance to next/previous keyframes in a clip with Shift/Option-K !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack
with FCP7 KeyGuide --
now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Joe Riggs Wrote:
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> I'm about an hour away from a pretty active
> film/video industry and most of the jobs I book
> are in the $25-30/hr range, even at small post
> houses. I'd like to make double that and
> occasionally I do but not often enough for me to
> turn down jobs within that lower range.
>
> The rates quoted by others is inspiring and my
> goal is to eventually make $500/day. Besides
> increasing my skill set (which I attempt to
> daily), what else can one do to book a client at
> the higher rate we deserve?

continue to highlight advertise and produce work that showcases that solid, proven and multi-faceted skill-set. works for me

Bluey,

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Besides increasing my skill set (which I attempt to daily), what else can one do to book a client at the higher rate we deserve?

My 2 cents...

There is no magic pill. You only deserve and earn higher rates by offering more in your skillset (don't "attempt" to increase it...DO IT), having an exemplary work ethic and having a killer Demo Reel (updated every few months)...period. Nobody is going to throw money at you. You have to display WHY you are paid what you command every day. Then reach higher.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

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Joe Riggs
Besides increasing my skill set (which I attempt to daily), what else can one do to book a client at the higher rate we deserve?

Niche Markets

We do web and video which in itself is not unique. However in websites, we have done about 300 in 3.5 years. Of those about 225 are lawyer websites. This means we have more skill at knowing what lawyers need, so we can charge more than another web design company for a lawyers site.

Video is the same way. There are companies out there that only do weddings or event video. We have carved a niche in "content aware" web video and music videos for tight budgets. The latter has made it so that we get more request from local artist than some of our competitors. It does not exactly shoot up the rate as most come with 4k - 10k budgets but it does increase the number of videos we are approached for.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"