Freelance - Client Producers / editors.... WRONG For Creativity (rant)

Movie trailer.

Words on screen > Clip of movie > words on screen > Clip of movie > Words again (w/sfx) > Clip > then closing screen with V/O. This is 85% of action trailer made in the last 10 years.
White background, Quirky actors or Comedian, > fade to words and a logo. This describes 30% of all commercials.

It has always amazed me how following templates somehow makes you a pro. Rare is the commercial that is completely taking you by surprise. Nearly everyone is producing "like" or "similar to". Our movies, tv shows and commercials are jokes at best these days.

Yet everyone wants to tell you how you are wrong for trying something completely different. Its not that its bad its more that there has been no president set for new style.

It is my theory that producers are all playing it safe or letting clients tell them too much without alternatives being offered. The customer is not always right. In fact when it comes to video they are usually wrong. Sure they know what they want to say but they hired you to turn it into something visual. They didn't hire you to shut-up and do what your told. They need input and guidance from you thats why they didn't do it themselves.

For those of you who have seen Redhouse Furniture commercials. Yes, it is funny and racially risky but it should have been a real commercial. Why, because it would get so much press that your company would have been know for something and yes it would get much more business just because.... wouldn't you want to see a place that was that brave to air that.

I have not yet seen a well done Horrible commercial fail yet. In fact ask yourself this... what are 3 commercials you remember? Normally people name one well done and 2 really annoying ones. What even more proven is the fact that the annoying or risky ones are named 1st.
You may not remember that allstate is a company until you remember Mayhem. Allstate can't sell insurance but Mayhem does.

4 friends jump in a car and go out to the middle of nowhere for a vacation. One guy goes outside to get something out of the car and he is mangled by some killer. The other three friends all decide at one point or the other to split up. No matter how many barns and kitchens they go through they never decide to pick up a weapon. PLEASE STOP. None of that is realistic accept maybe 4 friends on a vacation. Yet most horror movies are plotted that way. Its a template and it is OLD and it hasn't had impact on audiences in years.

I say that Hollywood and Indy films are lacking creativity mainly because the Pros keep teaching that this is the best way to do it. No one is pushing the non-creators to do something new. So why did they become editors? Oh, to stutup and do what they are told instead of standing up to do something new.

What say you?

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

If you want full creative control, being an editor is not the right profession. While we feel we "create", really our job is to provide. They aren't paying you to change their minds, they are paying you to bring their vision. So in that sense they ARE always right.

"Sure they know what they want to say but they hired you to turn it into something visual. They didn't hire you to shut-up and do what your told."

If you're interested in repeat business, it pays well to master the art of doing both. In my experience projects vary from complete creative control to providing the client's vision as accurately as you're able.

Bluey,

Tim,
Being in the position of the button pusher isn't where you want to be.
You want clients to choose you BECAUSE of what you bring to the table and the value you can add.
That is called "having a client following" and that's when you get paid the big bucks.

It's true that the final say on the creative is somewhere up the chain.
But you should always strive to be a creative force in the room.

"While we feel we "create", really our job is to provide."
That's just sad.

Quote
Sprocketz
"While we feel we "create", really our job is to provide."
That's just sad.

not necessarily 'sad' at all - as editors IMO our roles perspectively are to do both - create and provide . . .

Bluey,

Same can be said of animators.
There seems to be a floavour of the month effect...
untill the next flavour comes along.



bluey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > "While we feel we "create", really our job is to
> provide."
> That's just sad.
>
>
> not necessarily 'sad' at all - as editors IMO our
> roles perspectively are to do both - create and
> provide . . .
>
> Bluey,

Quote
mark@avolution
"Same can be said of animators.
There seems to be a floavour of the month effect...
untill the next flavour comes along."

out of genuine interest - could you explain how your comment responds in context to mine or the initial post?

Bluey,

Not sad at all. Just the reality of being an editor. I know we love to throw around the term "button pushers" when we are frustrated, but the reality is we are almost always more than that. I never said we don't bring something creative to the table. We have more influence on the finished product than anyone else in the process.

At the end of the day though, we are really just providing a service. You can make the most awesome piece you feel you've ever created on the cutting edge of artistic impressionism, but if it doesn't fit the client's (or studio, or director, or producer etc) vision and they don't buy what you're selling, you have to be able to accept that they are the decision makers.

That's not sad. That's the job. If you want full creative control in the finished product or story, being just a for hire editor will never be satisfying.

Sorry, it was a reply to the original post.


bluey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > "Same can be said of animators.
> There seems to be a floavour of the month
> effect...
> untill the next flavour comes along."
>
>
> out of genuine interest - could you explain how
> your comment responds in context to mine or the
> initial post?
>
> Bluey,

I just find it hard to be a button pusher. I do not think its really possible. Maybe being freelance and handling the entire workflow makes it this way. Its like habits or personality quirks. I have been doing this for so long that i can not always be agreeable about an obviously, soar thumb like, C-Movie bad decision.

On the local scene, and i mean like within 60miles or so, there are a lot of small businesses that can get on tv with lower budgets. Most are completely clueless about how to create or communicate in a medium that use every sense accept physical touch & smell. In most cases they tell me about what they like on tv now and then we spend at least 20mins on what they hate and why. Most times i can present a few choices of direction and go from there.

Then you get the " i was in drama class in 1989." or an 'i got a nephew story." These are people who will insist on a star wipe with glowing edges as a means of style in a lawyers profile. NO, is a complete sentence. I would rather risk the client than to put something out there that they can say was not as effective as expected and i think that clients respect you once they see that you have some pride in your work and a ethic of self identity.

Everyone has the foundation for a style after say 20 projects. Most who get into editing, 3d, color, camera or anything that requires seeing/hearing what others can not is there because of a creative urge. So once your at it for a few years you are always striving for that vision in your head. I respect the fact that previous styles have shaped whatever style we all use but in this day an age there are lazy creative artist who are more obsessed with making some twist, motion "pictur-ization" of or remake, just because its easier. they don't have to think and come up with something else. It like they are saying, " I can do what they did. NanNanNaNaNa."

I know it will always be so my little rant will not change the industry. I thank the little George Washington's, Four Rooms, Kick Asses, and Usual Suspects that we do get. Hopefully somebody will say that some of this is bullshit and i am not gonna stand for it no more!!!!!!

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Quote
JC
J.Corbett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just find it hard to be a button pusher. I do
> not think its really possible. Maybe being
> freelance and handling the entire workflow makes
> it this way. Its like habits or personality
> quirks. I have been doing this for so long that i
> can not always be agreeable about an obviously,
> soar thumb like, C-Movie bad decision.
>
> On the local scene, and i mean like within 60miles
> or so, there are a lot of small businesses that
> can get on tv with lower budgets. Most are
> completely clueless about how to create or
> communicate in a medium that use every sense
> accept physical touch & smell. In most cases they
> tell me about what they like on tv now and then we
> spend at least 20mins on what they hate and why.
> Most times i can present a few choices of
> direction and go from there.
>
> Then you get the " i was in drama class in 1989."
> or an 'i got a nephew story." These are people
> who will insist on a star wipe with glowing edges
> as a means of style in a lawyers profile. NO,
> is a complete sentence. I would rather risk the
> client than to put something out there that they
> can say was not as effective as expected and i
> think that clients respect you once they see that
> you have some pride in your work and a ethic of
> self identity.
>
> Everyone has the foundation for a style after say
> 20 projects. Most who get into editing, 3d, color,
> camera or anything that requires seeing/hearing
> what others can not is there because of a creative
> urge. So once your at it for a few years you are
> always striving for that vision in your head. I
> respect the fact that previous styles have shaped
> whatever style we all use but in this day an age
> there are lazy creative artist who are more
> obsessed with making some twist, motion
> "pictur-ization" of or remake, just because its
> easier. they don't have to think and come up with
> something else. It like they are saying, " I can
> do what they did. NanNanNaNaNa."
>
> I know it will always be so my little rant will
> not change the industry. I thank the little George
> Washington's, Four Rooms, Kick Asses, and Usual
> Suspects that we do get. Hopefully somebody will
> say that some of this is bullshit and i am not
> gonna stand for it no more!!!!!!

fair enough

Hey J. Corbett, I hear your message and somewhat agrees with it. Everything follows a formula. And this applies in almost every field: food industry, retail industry... In fact America invented the notion of "if I know, I am safe, and I'll buy".... So long are gone the mom and pop's dinners and restaurant: Denny's, Sizzlers.... all the same menu across the country.
And of course this applies to TV, movies, and our job as editors...
I agree that everything is so formulated it is sometimes frustrating....
But what I find interesting is that in fact the formula is reaching a wall.... Less and less movie ticket sales because not only are they expensive, but I think people are getting tired of seeing the same 'ol thing all over again: nice guy, bad guy, nice girl, inner conflict, etc....
Hollywood forgets the audience isn't stupid and sees through the crap it puts on the screen every week....
So sometimes we have "cool" stuff coming out.... like "Jeff, who lives at home". Very different, not formulated and taking some "chances" in the form and content. But still, at the end of the movie, it is sooooo obvious that the last 3 minutes have been imposed by the hollywood execs!!!! The movie is over at let's say 1h43 even though not everything has completely explained. But no need for that. However "they" did it! "they" added a 3 minute scene juuuuuust to make sure everything was explained.... in case the audience didn't get it... Kindda pathetic...

So sure I'd like to work on "cool" project that don't follow the formula, but like others said, we are not hired to do this usually, or at least not when working for TV unless it's HBO or Showtime.
I see myself as a Chef hired to work in a restaurant to take over a menu to do it my way, sure, but not to change the recipes...

Xavier
2009 MBP - FCP 7
www.xavier-pilsudski.com

Tim wrote-
[At the end of the day though, we are really just providing a service.]

That's true. Sometimes it's a two-way street, sometimes one way, and sometimes a dead end.

But ultimately you act as a consultant.

There's a story about Sidney Meyers, a well-known New York editor who also directed a classic docudrama, THE QUIET ONE [1942]. A friend of mine was his assistant on SLAVES (1968), a melodrama starring Steven Boyd, Ossie Davis and Dionne Warwick. Sidney always kept his hat on while editing on the Moviola. My friend asked him why.

"Just so they know I can always leave," he replied.

It's tough to work on material when you start to own it, and that's an occupational hazard. You can't! It's not yours. Use your own tricks to imperceptably maintain distance. Just be the best consultant craftserson, and you don't fall into that trap. It allows you to care but remain detached. I had to learn this myself, but I was lucky; I have some very patient clients.

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
Advance to next/previous keyframes in a clip with Shift/Option-K !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack
with FCP7 KeyGuide --
now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Most of the clients i get are completely ok with what i do even if its unusual. Its kinda odd that its the commercials that seem to have the most original content. I think in that format you have to be the kaleidoscope of originality. There are production houses out there that make a killing green screening from waste up and animating text ( lawyer commercials ).

I like Tarantino's style and his choice of music to accompany the scenes. I thought the Moth Man Prophecies was good but the end felt like a piece of adhesive tape.
Docs even fall into the copy machine now and the only thing that holds them is the subject matter.

My assistant see the world this way. He always is writing a spoof of the cliché, but even that is overdone. If you have ever scene the movie "Drive" that was seemingly done purposely not to insult the intelligence. The girl was very realistic and the action scene were too. NoOne was a superhero and there were no scenes with a punchline in the middle of the action scenes.

We are consultants but when you touch every part of the production you have to be more than that and veto some things. You also have to aggressively push somethings also. I really don't want to learn how to be a template worker. Thats not why i started doing this. If being a template maker is how you get big then i do not need to be big. Medium will be just fine.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"