Maya animation frame output format?

Posted by RJ 
RJ
Maya animation frame output format?
June 13, 2012 10:01AM
Hi folks,

I haven't worked with animation for 6 or 7 years, but presently working with a Maya artist. She is outputting frames in PNG format that I then compile into a ProRes mov. with QT Player before import into FCP7.

My question: Is PNG a good format for her to render out in? Never used it before and results look good, but I have always used PSD in the past. Thanks for your advice.

-Russ
Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 13, 2012 10:12AM
I use Targa sequences out of Maya.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 15, 2012 08:11AM
One of my all time favoourites is to output a targa sequence.
Then compile into a QT movie uncompressed, millions of colours +.

This maintains the original uncompressed beauty of animation, the alpha channel
for keying, and plays well as an overlay for video. happy day to you!


RJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi folks,
>
> I haven't worked with animation for 6 or 7 years,
> but presently working with a Maya artist. She is
> outputting frames in PNG format that I then
> compile into a ProRes mov. with QT Player before
> import into FCP7.
>
> My question: Is PNG a good format for her to
> render out in? Never used it before and results
> look good, but I have always used PSD in the past.
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> -Russ
Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 15, 2012 08:22AM
Yes PNG is a good format its "uncompressed" or Lossless as far as the image is concerned and also can have built-in Alpha.

But PNG and TARGA are both 8bit

Personally I prefer 16bit TIFF with Alpha if possible as you can then translate to 10bit video (ProRes or Uncompressed) with better quality gradient and alpha.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]
Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 15, 2012 09:22AM
Disagree with Ben...

TGA files support 8,15,16,24,32 bit depths.

Targa with alpha is 32-Bit (24 bit + 8 bit for the Alpha Channel).

This is the best format out of a 3D app IMHO. Then compile into a Prores 4444 file for maximal color retention.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.


Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 15, 2012 09:55AM
Sorry Joey should have been more clear.


24bit RGB computer image is 8bit per channel 8r+8g+8b or 256 levels x 256 levels x 256 levels

= 16,777,216 (~16 million colours)

with 8bit alpha on a TARGA it is indeed called 32bit...


That's the confusing thing.


A 10bit per channel file is 10r+10g+10b or 30bit overall

would be 1024 levels x 1024 levels x 1024 levels

= 1,073,741,824 (~1 billion colours)

24bit (or 8bit video) does not compete with 10bit video...


So...


When talking TIFFs you can say 8bit, 16bit or 32bit floating point then you are talking per channel not overall.

TIFF 16bit per channel is 16r+16g+16b or 48bit colour.

That's a whopping 65536 levels x 65536 levels x 65536 levels

= 281,474,976,710,656 (~280 Trillion colours)!




Sorry no competition - use 16bit per channel formats to output from AE or Maya than convert to ProRes 4444



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]
Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 15, 2012 10:00AM
Cheers mate. Well...worked / works for me for 15 years. The files are clean and easily converted (and probably smaller at that bit rate). The human eye would never pick up the difference between the 2 files on internet or television anyway...so I would still go with the smaller one.

If I was going 2K or larger, TIFF sequence would be a better choice.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.


Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 15, 2012 10:16AM
Now, if you want to go real fancy pants you could go RichPixelFormat (RPF)
which supports up to 32bit colour per channel plus alpha.
Plus it has extra channels, such as Z buffer, et al.

I know after-effects can read this, but I am pretty sure you'd have to change it to something
less "taxing" to get it into FCP....

When we go off tangent, we really go off-tangent!


Ben King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry Joey should have been more clear.
>
>
> 24bit RGB computer image is 8bit per channel
> 8r+8g+8b or 256 levels x 256 levels x 256 levels
>
> = 16,777,216 (~16 million colours)
>
> with 8bit alpha on a TARGA it is indeed called
> 32bit...
>
>
> That's the confusing thing.
>
>
> A 10bit per channel file is 10r+10g+10b or 30bit
> overall
>
> would be 1024 levels x 1024 levels x 1024 levels
>
> = 1,073,741,824 (~1 billion colours)
>
> 24bit (or 8bit video) does not compete with 10bit
> video...
>
>
> So...
>
>
> When talking TIFFs you can say 8bit, 16bit or
> 32bit floating point then you are talking per
> channel not overall.
>
> TIFF 16bit per channel is 16r+16g+16b or 48bit
> colour.
>
> That's a whopping 65536 levels x 65536 levels x
> 65536 levels
>
> = 281,474,976,710,656 (~280 Trillion colours)!
>
>
>
>
> Sorry no competition - use 16bit per channel
> formats to output from AE or Maya than convert to
> ProRes 4444
Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 15, 2012 10:24AM
...nothing like a digital pi$$ing contest on a Friday smileys with beer

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 15, 2012 10:25AM
Yep Mark - Rich Pixel Format is a great 3D post output - mainly because you get a lot of control and can add loads of useful channels as you say like the depth map information (Z buffer) even material effects for compositing/grading.

32bit floating point images are slightly different from the method I described above.

Rather than re-explain it...


...here's an article someone made earlier tongue sticking out smiley


Quote
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Digital_Imaging/bits_01.htm

In computer terms, a "bit" (binary digit) is the smallest piece of information and has a value of either "0" or "1" which actually corresponds to one of the millions of "switches" inside the computer being "ON" or "OFF".

In a 1 bit image we can assign the binary value "0" to black and "1" to white.

A 2 bit image can have 2^2 = 4 tones: 00 (black), 01 (gray), 10 (gray), and 11 (white).

An 8 bit image can have 2^8 = 256 tones ranging from 00000000 (0) to 11111111 (255).

JPEG images are often referred to as 24 bit images because they can store up to 8 bits in each of the 3 color channels and therefore allow for 256 x 256 x 256 = 16.7 million colors.

32 bit Floating Point Format (for advanced users)

In the topic about sensor linearity we saw that the upper half of the tones is used to describe the brightest stop. As a consequence, even a 16 bit INTEGER image only has 16 tones to describe the darkest stop in a 12 stop image, while for the brightest stop, 32,768 tones are available. This is the opposite of human vision which is more sensitive to shadow detail than to highlight detail. A 32 bit INTEGER image provides more tones but has the same limitation of having a disproportionate amount of tones for the highlights. 32 bit FLOATING POINT images address this issue by making more efficient use of the 32 bits. Instead of using 32 bits to describe 4,294,967,296 integer numbers, 23 bits are allocated to a fraction, 8 bits to an exponent, and 1 bit to a sign, as follows:


V = (-1)^S * 1.F * 2 ^ (E-127), whereby:
S = Sign, uses 1 bit and can have 2 possible values
F = Fraction, uses 23 bits and can have 8,388,608 possible values
E = Exponent, uses 8 bits and can have 256 possible values

Practically speaking, this allows for an almost infinite number of tones between level "0" and "1", more than 8 million tones between level "1" and "2" and 128 tones between level "65,534" and "65,535", much more in line with our human vision than a 32 bit integer image (*). Because of the infinitesimally small numbers that can be stored, the 32 bit floating point format allows to store a virtually unlimited dynamic range. In other words, 32 bit floating point images can store a virtually unlimited dynamic range in a relatively compact way with more detail in the shadows than in the highlights and take up only twice the size of 16 bits per channel images, saving memory and processing power. A higher accuracy format allows for smoother dynamic and tonal range compression. This format is important in the computer graphics industry (gaming and animation) and supported by Adobe Photoshop CS2.

(*) Which would have the same number of tones (65,536) between level "0" & "1", level "1" &"2", and level "65,534" &"65,535"



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]
Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 15, 2012 10:48AM
...you guys win the digital pi$$ing contest thumbs down Cheers smileys with beer

Just as an FYI...I do full compositing / grading of assets given to me by the game teams here @ EA - they are for either in-game or marketing (Internet display / Jumbotron / Broadcast TV). I deal with many different types of assets including flat geometry passes / shadow passes / reflection passes / etc...all exported out of MAYA and all with alpha channels. I work in 16-Bit in After Effects 99.99% of the time. The image sequence of choice for all = TARGA.

I am working on a huge project currently for the Madden NFL 13 game disk. I am on NDA so I cannot be too specific but I can tell you that it's LOADED with motion tracking data I received from a greenscreen shoot we did of a TV personality (to be named later winking smiley) on RED 4k, converted on set to 1080p Prores 4444 for me to use in post, I brought into AE CS 5.5, used The Foundry's CameraTracker plug-in and exported data to a MAYA script. The MAYA Artist brought the tracking data in and rendered out TARGA sequences of the tracked virtual set that I then brought back into AE and incorporated the live action shoot person (to be named later winking smiley), compositing elements, etc. Awesome & smooth workflow.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

RJ
Re: Maya animation frame output format?
June 18, 2012 01:47PM
As always, I learn a lot by asking a question here. THANKS to all for the responses. smiling smiley

-Russ
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