Moviola or Video Symphony - SCAL

Need to relearn PS for Post and learn AE. Recommendations?

Both are good. Its not so much the school but the teacher. Who is teaching?

Michael Horton
-------------------

Learning anything you want isn't really a mystery anymore. Theres this website called 'YouTube' see, and if you search any subject you're 99.9% likely to find many instructional videos on your desired software for it's intended purpose.

[www.youtube.com] --- [www.creativecow.net]

WM

Can you recommend an instructor from either?

I don't recall but mate - really It's very easy - you just use the search function on youtube and/or google or spend 3 mins looking at the creative cow website. I can't remember the exact names of the channels i found tutorials on, also theres a site called lynda or linda.com that has tutorials on just about everything.

Some things like the odd question on the working of FCP on a forum like this is fine, and there are other such forums out there for every program you could possibly imagine, but refusing to use an internet search engine and look for yourself seems a little . . . lazy?

Not too much trouble surely? No offence.

Internet tutorials are no substitute for real in-person instruction. If you can afford the classes, take the classes. Blind reliance on internet resources is one big reason why so many beginner editors don't know what they're doing.


www.derekmok.com

I totally agree with Derek. The difference between tutorials and the "tips and tricks" or some troubleshooting steps on the internet is that you will very likely end up with crucial knowledge gaps about the functionality of the software. Short instructional tips and forums are supposed to supplement a full fledged tutorial series and lessons, not replace them.



www.strypesinpost.com

> The difference between tutorials and the "tips and tricks" or some troubleshooting steps on the internet is that you will
> very likely end up with crucial knowledge gaps about the functionality of the software.

Not just that, but you miss out on the philosophy of why certain things are done. I had an assistant one time who was doing "stringouts" of dailies, but she messed with the order completely and put the clips in the order of wide-medium-close, causing endless confusion. Another assistant left all of his clips named "Untitled". And every self-taught FCP editor I've ever met has spent at least one project renaming clips in the Browser without matching them in the OS. You don't learn this by watching internet videos. You learn this by working with a real editor and having your mistakes thrown into your face.

The biggest problem with internet tutorials is that they don't talk back, they don't see what you're doing, and if you achieve the right results the wrong way, they can't correct you. As with many other fields of study, getting to the right results with the wrong methodology is often a lot worse than getting to the wrong results with the right methodology. With the latter, you know you're not doing things right because the result looks wrong. With the former, you think you've learned the step when you haven't, and that can be your downfall when you're on a real job.


www.derekmok.com

Good thread. Good points. So how you feel about a 4 year degree?

Michael Horton
-------------------

Quote
mok
derekmok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Internet tutorials are no substitute for real
> in-person instruction. If you can afford the
> classes, take the classes. Blind reliance on
> internet resources is one big reason why so many
> beginner editors don't know what they're doing.

While i understand your point i'm not rich, you see. Yet i have had great success in studying manuals and utilising the internet for self-teachings regards the programs i use. Would i pay-out countless hundreds or thousands of pounds for in-person tutoring? Absolutely. Can i afford it? No.

For over 13 years i can proudly say i'm self taught regards my main axes. Deadlines met and clients happy. The internet is a great tool and if you research and dig enough, work and study hard enough - theres no reason why learning an application or certain function of, should result in freshman editors "not knowing what they're doing".

If you're rich, or mummy and daddy can finance the courses then fine - but most people especially in this economy simply cannot afford such tutoring as it is more often than not, prohibitively expensive.

My point being almost any information is available online. and as long as one isn't a complete dunce it really doesn't take that much to study and work one's self into competence with a desired software or program, as opposed to squawking out like a baby bird with a hungry, open mouth expecting food to just fall in.

So without spending what can often be $1000s - which most people simply can not afford - i think it's great that people all over the world now contribute with the sincere desire to share details and skills about that which they know, on the internet.

Of course if you DO have hundreds or thousands of dollars or pounds to slush-off on professional in-person training then good for you, but like i say for most people - that simply is not an option.

I strongly agree with Derek. I think there's a huge difference when it comes to learning a new piece of software from scratch and learning a new tip or trick. Example:

I thought I'd make an easy switch from FCP to Avid by learning Avid through Lynda.com. After going through both the Avid tutorials and the "learning Avid for FCP editors" I figured I was beyond prepared for my first day of editing my first Avid show. Boy was I wrong. There were things I was positive I was doing the way I did it in the tutorials but it didn't seem to be working for me in my bay. After sweating out my first day, I sat down with an Avid professional buddy and within in 10 MINUTES, I was probably 10x more efficient. He showed me a few things that just can't be taught in a tutorial and even more importantly - volunteered answers to questions I didn't even know to ask! I learned more in 10 minutes with a human being than I did during hours of online tutorials. Whether that's worth ponying up some $$$ is up to you. (although luckily my buddy sat down with me for free!)

ttp - Sure you can learn AE by watching tutorials but you'll learn so much more from a seasoned professional who is willing to teach what he/she knows.

Quote
matt
mattsilfen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I strongly agree with Derek. I think there's a
> huge difference when it comes to learning a new
> piece of software from scratch and learning a new
> tip or trick. Example:
>
> I thought I'd make an easy switch from FCP to Avid
> by learning Avid through Lynda.com. After going
> through both the Avid tutorials and the "learning
> Avid for FCP editors" I figured I was beyond
> prepared for my first day of editing my first Avid
> show. Boy was I wrong. There were things I was
> positive I was doing the way I did it in the
> tutorials but it didn't seem to be working for me
> in my bay. After sweating out my first day, I sat
> down with an Avid professional buddy and within in
> 10 MINUTES, I was probably 10x more efficient. He
> showed me a few things that just can't be taught
> in a tutorial and even more importantly -
> volunteered answers to questions I didn't even
> know to ask! I learned more in 10 minutes with a
> human being than I did during hours of online
> tutorials. Whether that's worth ponying up some
> $$$ is up to you. (although luckily my buddy sat
> down with me for free!)
>
> ttp - Sure you can learn AE by watching tutorials
> but you'll learn so much more from a seasoned
> professional who is willing to teach what he/she
> knows.

Money & Privilege . I don't disagree with you, but sill - money. If you've got it fine if not, at least respect the fact others have had to teach themselves through necessity (?)

WM

When face to face courseware is not available or affordable-- get your eyeballs over to Lynda.com-- a huge and growing library of well-thought-out video tutorials-- for instance, the Ben Long beginner/intermediate course on the Canon 5D Mark II-III is primarily for photographers but I took it anyway-- I was blown away by his show-me detail of menu options and practical demos.

The Lynda site offers thousands of titles conducted by some of the greats in this industry, and for 25/month, to have the run of entire library?? That's HUGE.

www.lynda.com

I do not work for them. I am a subscription customer and I design my own curriculum. When I can, I enhance it with live classes, but, remembering the very first Avid 201 course I took in 1994-- which was not identified as a "beta" offering but certainly turned out to be -- any class can be a mixed bag.

Best, as always,
Loren S. Miller
www.neotrondesign.com
Home of KeyGuide Central

A lot of points here..

Firstly, what do I feel about a 4 year degree? I find that it is a good starting point for people who want to know more about the various crafts in film and tv. There are aspects such as audio, production and post that you will never know about if all you were looking for is how to export a QT from FCP. And there are also general creative aspects that are hard to teach in short editing 101 courses.

Money and privilege... I don't disagree that education costs money. Lecturers don't pay themselves. Neither do machines and computers. But why not consider education as investing in yourself for a professional job?


> The internet is a great tool and if you research and dig enough, work and study hard enough - theres no reason
>why learning an application or certain function of, should result in freshman editors "not knowing what they're
>doing"

The problem with the internet is that nobody tells you what you are doing wrong, and anyone can dish out bad advice. I don't know how many times I have come across people on the internet saying that you can edit H.264 in FCP7 because it is "Quicktime", and how many "advice" on how to fix the "interlacing" issue not knowing that interlacing is actually a format, not a problem.



www.strypesinpost.com