Agree or Disagree: Cutting w/ Media Composer will provide more jobs and higher pay?

This is more for the LA market but would like to hear from other markets as well.

I painstakingly started editing w/ Adobe Premiere 5.0/5.1. Once Final Cut Pro was available, I've been using it since version 7(11 years). With FCP7 EOL, I jumped back to Adobe Premiere CS6/CC(5 months now). Being in the LA market, I see a lot of job postings for Avid Media Composer(and still FC7) and starting to see posts for Premiere editors. I'm thinking of adding Media Composer to my resume and will actually be starting w/ the 30 day trial). Question...How is the job market going for editors not cutting w/ Media Composer? For Media Composer users, is it fair to say knowing how to cut(and tell a story) w/ Media Composer allow for higher pay?

Thanks for your feedback!

I am not in the LA market, so take this as you will...

A tool is a tool and knowing more tools creates more opportunities. Even though I have not touched an AVID since 2003, I still have an updated Symphony on my laptop. The higher pay thing...well, that depends on how good you are. That's the beauty thing about our business...you can skate through an interview on charm and BS (and I have seen a few completely BS their way through an interview and get hired)...but plop someone in an edit suite with a deadline and stand back and watch as the BS quickly becomes apparent.

Pay is commensurate with experience. It's all about the content and the ability to manipulate it (storytelling). That said, I earn more today using good old FCP7 than I ever did using any other NLE.

Good luck.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

"How is the job market going for editors not cutting w/ Media Composer?"

If you want to cut broadcast TV or commercials, possibly features (but that's a VERY hard nut to crack), you need to learn Avid Media Composer. Adobe Premiere is still in the lower rank jobs at the moment...but it might soon take over in places that are still holding out with FCP 7. So if you know FCP...you can still get work at those companies. And if they make the switch to Premiere Pro...then there you go. But, this is a very heavy Avid town, and most places I see shifting away from FCP and going back to Avid.

If you want to cut broadcast...learn Media Composer. And broadcast is one of the higher paying jobs.

"For Media Composer users, is it fair to say knowing how to cut(and tell a story) w/ Media Composer allow for higher pay? "

Yes, because that is the tool that the higher paying jobs use. But Joe is right, pay scale is based on your level of storytelling ability and show experience. Knowing how to use the tool is a big bonus. But as most of the higher paying jobs use Avid MC...if you want those jobs, you need to learn how to use it.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Thank you Shane and joe. I'm actually starting w/ the 30 day trial and following Kevin McAuliffe's, 84 lessons on "Learn Media Composer" over at Creativecow. Any supplementary books/material you would recommend in addition to this? Shane, any leads or contacts in the area you might know of looking for an Apprentice/post-PA? Thanks!

Steve Cohen's Avid Agility. Pretty much the bible.



www.strypesinpost.com

...never was a book guy. Learn from the best I always say...so Video Tutorials from awesome people who are working in the industry. I got right into the thick of it volunteering as a grafix mod over at the Avid Community Forum for a few years as well - learned a lot. Nothing teaches like DOING IT though

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Joey-

Normally I agree with you, but I NEEDED that Cohen book and I'm the guy who pushed him to write it. You will LOVE it. He has OUR head for detail. Get it. Every page turns you into a power user.


Until FCPX, you could see FCP7 in many Hollywood cutting rooms, I visited Showtime and watched BJ Sears (VIRTUOSITY, RED SNEAKERS) show me his chops on FCP. Yet Avid maintains a stronghold. You needed to know both.

Premiere Pro began making noise, but Adobe neutralized the excitement with a choiceless purchase model. You can of course stop paying when you don't need it but it's all a PITA. It's not user-centric. So what's left? FCPX? Not without discrete tracks. So what's left? AVID. And being positioned early in the longform market, it remains dominant and you simply must know Avid. MC7 has improvements in AMA and other tasty stuff.

The most affordable way I know to learn it is to buy it as a student (US$300!)and noodle through it, or subscribe to Lynda.com for US$25/month-- you get the run of the Lynda how-to library of hundreds of titles, beginner-intermediate levels, and IMHO far better organized curricula and production values than other sources.

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
To reposition a Marker press Command and drag it!

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide™ Power Pack
with FCP7 KeyGuide --
now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

I don't agree that the payment model for Premiere is disagreeable. It doesn't bother me at all, and most of the facilities I work at over here have gone over to it so that now all their workstations have all the Adobe products installed, not just one here and there with Premiere, two with Photoshop, one with After Effects and so on.

Avid is solid and well established. Adobe is improving and propagating at a rapid rate. FCP7 is still being stoically held up in some places, although one new critical workflow point will most likely blow it over. There's also Quantel, FCPX, Smoke, Vegas and more. But you won't get more pay unless you cut faster and better than the norm, no matter what you're asked to cut on.

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The most affordable way I know to learn it is to buy it as a student (US$300!)and noodle through it, or subscribe to Lynda.com for US$25/month-- you get the run of the Lynda how-to library of hundreds of titles, beginner-intermediate levels, and IMHO far better organized curricula and production values than other sources.

Like I said...no need to carry a book if you are online. I like to see the interactivity of the app in video form. Taught me personally. My manuals have never been cracked.

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But you won't get more pay unless you cut faster and better than the norm, no matter what you're asked to cut on.

...is the bottom line.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

If anything, I find the Adobe model makes it easier for users who want to pick up the apps. They don't have to worry about making a one off purchase on a full license. Also if you're often working at production facilities, and rarely use your own machine, you can choose to license the app for a month or two to familiarize with the app. It's sort of a pay as you use model vs paying even if you're not using it.



www.strypesinpost.com

I'm keeping my mind open about Adobe, just like I am about FCPX.

But they both make me crabby and grumpy right now.

- Loren

Today's Media Composer keytip:
Loop Play In to Out with Control-6 (Alt-6 in Windows)

The Media Composer 6.x KeyGuide™: your power placemat.
Now available at the LAFCPUG store or
www.neotrondesign.com

Any Premiere Pro questions, let me know.

Yes, CC is not for everyone G-Joe, but it does work for a good many of our users. You've got to try that C-4D integration, BTW. If you don't dig CC, you can always get CS6 and stay on those apps.

To answer to the question asked in this thread, my answer is yes, learning Avid MC will allow you to make more money.
MC is THE tool used 90% of the time in networks and studios.
MC is also used to cut... everything from commercials to TV promos, movie trailers, reality shows, etc...
FCP is not as versatile. Of course you can do all the above but as a general rule FCP is not used for "heavy" projects like movie editing and multicam TV shows.

>as a general rule FCP is not used for "heavy" projects like movie editing and
>multicam TV shows.

I would disagree. I am using FCP7 to cut multicam and have been using it to cut TV shows including multicam and what not. There's a preference naturally, but I'm not saying that you can't. In fact, quite a few TV shows and features have been cut on FCP both in Hollywood and the world over.

FCP is starting to fade away, but that's not to say you can't use it still. Having a feature or TV show or a reality cut on FCP7 is really not news anymore.



www.strypesinpost.com

I meant working in Hollywood where the big bucks are.
NBC, ABC, ABC Family, Disney, CBS, FOX, FX are Avid based.
Trailer Park and Ants Farm (biggest trailer houses): AVID
Of course you'll find some pretty big names that are FCP but we're talking as a general rule.

It depends on your market, and what the jobs are. In LA and in many major industries, you probably need to know MC well.



www.strypesinpost.com

I'm a FCP7, PP6, MC6 user, but also an educator and this thread is great for me to read. Thanks to all. In the last 5 years, we had moved from Avid primarily to FCP6, then FCP7 and would offer MC (and tutorial based training) on a couple of machines for students' advanced thesis projects, if they so wished. PP6 is offered on one machine and we like it. At this point we need to move on and I believe that, due to market dominance AND Adobe's new pricing, back to MC is where we are heading.

Just a footnote for anyone associated with Adobe reading this. PP_CC offers a strong move forward from FCP7 and we would like to include PP, AE, and PS in our curriculum, but your new pricing scheme simply makes it prohibitive and downright punitive for our institution to use your software. I have heard the same from people at other institutions. If you want to grow your market share, then I believe alienating the education market is a real mistake for Adobe.

RJ,

Agree with all you have said - this is good information for Adobe to hear. Please post this on their website as well. They are getting pounded with similar stories and a petition with over 36,000 signatures so drop yours in the "Feature Request / Feedback" area on the Adobe site. I am not a fan of the pricing modle either...hopefully they will open this up to a few options.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Is it that much more expensive? I think it actually works out cheaper for me. The 'Australia Tax' doesn't apply, thankfully.

With Editshare Lightworks around the corner(especially Mac), I can see a lot of educators/institutions going w/ this NLE. 2 reasons why:

1. Price...free! even the pro version with the additional codecs for $60 is quite a bargain.

2. Screen credibility. Hollywood Blockbusters including Oscar winner, "The King's Speech" was cut on it.

I got the chance to talk to and see Scott Hill demo Lightworks at NAB, Film Editor for the Nutty Professor, Here Comes the Boom, Zookeeper, etc...

Amazing times, amazing prices, amazing choices...in order for a tree to bare fruit, it starts at the roots. NLE companies should focus on education in order to grow their marketshare.

RJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At this point we need to move on
> and I believe that, due to market dominance AND
> Adobe's new pricing, back to MC is where we are
> heading.
>
> Just a footnote for anyone associated with Adobe
> reading this. PP_CC offers a strong move forward
> from FCP7 and we would like to include PP, AE, and
> PS in our curriculum, but your new pricing scheme
> simply makes it prohibitive and downright punitive
> for our institution to use your software. I have
> heard the same from people at other institutions.
> If you want to grow your market share, then I
> believe alienating the education market is a real
> mistake for Adobe.


Hi RJ, what about the educational pricing for Adobe that you don't like? I gather that Adobe has an educational pricing available for Creative Cloud that is similar to their old CS educational pricing. You should check with your local Adobe rep, as I believe on top of that, they also have a volume licensing program for educational institutions.



www.strypesinpost.com

Hi Strypes, joeboo, Jude,

The main problem for us is that it is a rental. We don't update all of our machines every year or even every version. If we "purchase" it, we own it (or at least a perpetual license, that is). This may be hard to believe but we don't have an operating budget that we can rely on and have to go begging to an administrator, who has other chickens to feed, every time we need something. This is completely unpredictable and subject to vagaries like the political fortunes of the state legislature. Many universities and colleges are subject to this uncertainty. One thing is always certain, we have an overflow of students who deserve good tools to work with.

As an educator, I can rent CC for as little as $20/month, which is very good to my mind. For the institution, it's going to be a problem.

Lightworks for Mac, may be a solution. I haven't personally used, but I've seen it in action. I'll try when available.

Thanks.

Is lightworks similar to all the other NLEs? It's never fun to come out of your training institution ready to use equipment that no employer owns and having no basic idea of how to operate what they do own.

Which is not to say that I don't think people should learn and love any piece of software, just that prep for work should be prep for work, especially now when unestablished editors are expected to be editors, graders, audio engineers, 3d and motion graphics specialists and even shooters in order to get employed.

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It's never fun to come out of your training institution ready to use equipment that no employer owns and having no basic idea of how to operate what they do own.

...which is why I came out of Film School an Avid Editor...I learned MC 1000 & Quantel Edit Box in Full Sail University. Nobody in this godforsaken state can even spell "Quantel" let alone use one...so I lost all of that knowledge.

BTW...while I was in school ('97 / '98), my own kit consisted of a Powermac 9500 (96 MB RAM) / 10 Gig HD / Targa 2000 card / Premiere 4.2. No students back then could afford to buy an Avid.

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prep for work should be prep for work, especially now when unestablished editors are expected to be editors, graders, audio engineers, 3d and motion graphics specialists and even shooters in order to get employed.

Hello THAT is what commands more pay in my market...not the NLE.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

> As an educator, I can rent CC for as little as
> $20/month, which is very good to my mind. For the
> institution, it's going to be a problem.

I think you should contact your local Adobe rep for details.


>1. Price...free! even the pro version with the additional codecs for $60 is quite a bargain.
>2. Screen credibility. Hollywood Blockbusters including Oscar winner, "The King's Speech" was cut on it.

The price is certainly good. As for Hollywood cred to decide if I should learn an NLE. Where I work usually decides that.

I have seen Lightworks, not really used it, but there will be some things to get used to like the lack of a unified interface. I have to say that if I edit on a Lightworks, I will want the controller. That makes the editing experience in Lightworks a lot more fluid. It's kind of like using the DaVinci Resolve with a Resolve panel.



www.strypesinpost.com

Yeah...just because a "Hollywood Feature" was cut on something does not mean that dictates what everyone should / will use or are using. They don't say "...and the Oscar for Best Editing in a Feature Film goes to Joe Shmoe and his Lightworks NLE". It's the talent - not the tool. Only budget-conscious studios will hire you solely based around their gear and not your talent...because they are finacially prohibited to outfit you. Then again, any editor worth his salt will openly welcome learning any system to get a gig. No room for snobs in this economy.

When I started on FCP, NOBODY was using it and most features were cut on Avids and the only reason I stopped using Premiere back then was because they pulled it from the Mac platform.

The 2 biggest gigs of my career were to help 2 studios (5 year stints in each) retool by dumping AVID MC / DS Nitris systems for FCP systems. Apple really pi$$ed off a lot of people by not upgrading FCP7 to FCP8. Oh well...more $$$ for Adobe / AVID.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I agree with Joey that it is talent over NLE. And that there is no room for snobs. However, depending on the type of work you are doing. If you are working on your own machine and do not need to hand work off to someone else, then the NLE does not matter. If you are working at a facility, or if you need to hand work off to someone else, then the NLE does matter. Predominantly, I am still in FCP7 land, but when I edit at home, and I need to hand off work to FCP editors, I usually use Premiere for the rough cut and then send it to FCP via XML.



www.strypesinpost.com