workflow for feature using multiple cameras (C300 and DSLR) and sync sound

I just got a gig cutting a low budget feature to be shot on the C300 and some 7D's with external sound on FCP. Would anyone mind sharing their thoughts on workflow. I've used both cameras for shorter pieces but never a feature.

I assume that we will transcode both camera's footage to ProRes before we cut but how did you deal with the external sound and syncing? I will have an assistant editor on the film so I want to instruct them from the beginning how to sync and transcode.

Did you transcode the footage and then sync it or sync and then transcode? Many of the scenes are going to be shot multicam but not all the cameras are going to be synced.

Any insight into this would be awesome!!!

> but how did you deal with the external sound and syncing?

With only two angles, I'd skip the multiclip and just put the two angles on separate tracks. Watch out for file management -- you need to devise a system where clip names are identical but related (some way to distinguish but connect two clips that belong together, for example). And always remember to organize the dual-system sound files. People often neglect the audio files when organizing, and low-end audio recorders (such as the ubiquitous Zoom H4n) don't have any system for the file names, so Day 1's files will be dead identical to Day 2's. Audio files have no batch list, so you can and must rename them.


www.derekmok.com

HI

Thanks! That's a great point about the audio files needing to be renamed. I ran into that on some shorter pieces and it's a pain in the neck.

Actually we will have up to 7 cameras for some of the performance scenes.

Specifically I wanted to know when one sync's the files to the external audio and transcodes. Back in the day, when I used film, you would use the work print audio and then add the original sound back in protools after picture lock. Obviously that's not what you do here. For shorter pieces, we usually sync and then transcode the clip into ProRes for organizing and cutting.

Is there a better way when dealing with a feature's worth of footage?

Thanks,
rachel

1.
Transcode media to Prores.

you need to use Log & Transfer, or some other system whereby you can go back to the original cards or files when you need to.

now *maybe *you don't need to do this, but it will sure pay to act as if you do.

for the record, i prefer to edit in a lower res such as ProResLT, so i'm still working in a traditional "off-line / on-line" way.


2. Sync / Link / Subclip
sometimes subcliping is necessary, sometime it's a matter of choice.
i tend to subclip to trim the audio of any overhangs.

also it used to be that the audio overhangs would mess with multiclips.
i'm not sure how that works these days, it'd be worth looking into.


3.
great point from Derek on re-naming the sound files. i think this is a good thing to do as they come in, or not long after.

this can probably be done after you sync and name the clips, so you can do the "rename file to match clip" thing in FCP.

if you re-name before you sync, all you can do is give them a date & file number, so that each file has a unique name.
this is OK, but makes life harder for the sound team at the end, and for you too as you edit, i reckon.


4. Multiclip.
if you have the time, i would multiclip.

it is VARY RARE for me to edit with multlclips in a "switching" kind of way,
and it's good to treat your multicam footage as single cam while you edit.
what is great on one camera wont necessarily be great on the other, especially if you cross-shoot: one actor might be great on one take, and the other better in different take.

however it can come in handy to quickly flip though the angles of the clips


as you've worked in film you'll appreciate the care and attention that need to go into this,
and that is not something that happens in an instant.
even if you can speed up the syncing with pluraleyes or similar, preparing your rushes is a big part of the day's work.
if you can, get an assistant!
if you cant get an assistant, add a lot of time to the edit schedule.

another thing that is VERY IMPORTANT is the work you put in BEFORE THE SHOOT.
you will have to stress to the crew over and over and over the importance of getting all the cameras shooting the same frame rate.



nick

Transcode, sync, create multiclips. In that order.

You can sync after the edit, but that takes up more time.

Pluraleyes is useful for syncing via audio if you're doing it FCP. Premiere has built in syncing, and native format support so yea, that's what I'll do, but I'll wait for the next patch to work with multicam in Premiere.



www.strypesinpost.com

thanks everyone, this is really helpful.

One more question still to answer:

After syncing with Plural Eyes, then what? What do you edit/multiclip?

Plural Eyes as I've used it creates a sequence with the sunk (?) clips on it (either one per clip or all the clips together on one sequence). Before you multiclip (or edit at all, not all the scenes use multiple cameras) how do you manage and edit the sync'ed clips? Do you create subclips for each shot? Merge them in the browser? I really want a way to organize shots and takes that I can do in the browser with bins and not on the timeline.

Some folks have suggested merging, some creating subclips...most folks advise against exporting a new clip linked to the wav file.

What have other people done?

thanks,
Rachel

What Derek and Nick said. And strict naming conventions, whatever you settle on, throughout.

Nick also wrote-
[it is VARY RARE for me to edit with multlclips in a "switching" kind of way, ]

Surprised to hear you say that. I find using the Command key with the numeric keypad to select and cut angles rather fun, following or upcutting the beat. You can always "collapse" the multiclip into a single stream and trim the cuts afterward. I guess just a matter of taste.

Ugh, the whole "back to double-system" synching really bugs me; I haven't had to do a lot of it, but one needs to know the flow.

For that matter, with 2 and 4K cameras we're practically back to prepping footage as one lite workprints before edit and conforming the "negative" afterward. I thought we left that behind.

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
To reposition a Marker press Command and drag it!

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide™ Power Pack
with FCP7 KeyGuide --
now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Thanks everyone, as always!

I am putting together instructions for the camera and sound department and my assistant editor on the project as we speak ( rarely get the luxury of doing this). Let's see if they listen to me. Hey, I'm just the editor...

Rachel

What I do is to merge the video with the wav files (cmd L) in the timeline. Then I select all the clips, make them independent and drag them into a new bin. That will create new master clips. You can sort them by scene or by cards in the bin. You can also now choose to delete the original unsynced clips or move them to another project file so as to avoid clutter.

Then I start creating multiclips by in points. So I'll trim the head of the clips in the timeline and then drag them into a bin and make multiclips. Then I replace the single cam stacks with the multiclip. The new instance of the clip in the bin can then be deleted. Match frame will reveal the source synced master clips in the original bin, while reveal master multiclip will reveal the multiclip in the multiclips bin. FCP was really designed for syncing from the bin, while I prefer syncing from the timeline, hence the slightly awkward workflow.

I've done this workflow on quite a lot of reality shows, and this works for me.



www.strypesinpost.com

Quote
Loren
Surprised to hear you say that. I find using the Command key with the numeric keypad to select and cut angles rather fun, following or upcutting the beat. You can always "collapse" the multiclip into a single stream and trim the cuts afterward. I guess just a matter of taste.

well if both angles are great...
certainly if its a multicam "event" shoot

but generally with drama i just find i construct the scene in a different way.
they are also shot in a different way: rarely cross-shooting between two actors. (hasn't happened yet for me)
and if they did who's to say they will both be at their peak in the same take?


nick