FREELANCING & BIDDING ON WORK @ $20??!

Hi - i've been scouting around to get some freelance work in and on certain sites i'm frequently seeing 'budgets' of $20-$25.

WTF? is this normal?? Thats basically doing it for free!!!! Music videos, etc is what i'm looking at.

Has anyone here taken on such low-paid work for the sake of portfolio-buffing and if so how did it work out?


Cheers,
WM,

Of course it's not normal. People earn more serving coffee. Anybody who offers $20 doesn't deserve to have a professional working for him. People can be insanely arrogant -- I've seen ads that require a mile-long list of qualifications from applicants, yet offer less than what a waitress makes.


www.derekmok.com

Cheers Mok - yeah it did make my eyes bleed somewhat . . . how odd . . i know theres ment to be a recession but WTF are these people thinking??? this one job had 20 apps already for a $20 - and i'm in the UK so all going well i'll get the job and then be able to buy one, maybe two rolls of toilet paper, imagine that!

WM,

You'd be surprised. In my part of the world (Central Europe / Germany) scale is now the equivalent of approx. $35 an hour. Granted, the top end pros can charge more, but there are precious few of them and unfortunately there are plenty of people out there who will work for scale or less or even for free to get a foot in the door. I personally know of several production companies and post houses who pay editors max $25 an hour for 10's with no overtime and have no problem recruiting.

On top of that, the government film subsidies even give money (we're talking in the millions every year) as well as tax breaks to numerous producers and broadcasters who pay below scale. A totally screwed up subsidy system that is driving prices, careers and the industry into the ground.

I think that things are somewhat better in the UK (the level of creativity and quality of production is certainly much better) so be happy for that, although the mile-long list of qualifications syndrome is just as prevalent here.

I could go on.....(i.e. did anyone inquire about working conditions?)

Very tough times, these. On the one hand, plenty of brilliant technical progress and innovation, on the other a completely over-saturated market with very poor oversight where it has become extremely difficult - especially for freelancers - to carve out a career.



Just for laughs, this is from a current employment ad:

xxx is looking for an Editing/Compositing Operator (m/f) to start immediately. Your responsibilities will include final online of HD TV projects and 2K/4K cinema projects, performing final visual fx on required shots, and optimization of 2D and 3D shots, retouching and restoration, workflow development and improvement, data transfers, transcoding and rendering. You have a tech background or tech degree in the media field or have extensive work experience in these areas. You can work in Nuke, Baselight, Avid, After Effects and Smoke, in other words various editing and compositing software. You have experience in the technical evalution of digital images, as well as solid knowledge of scripting, video encoding and extensive experience with various operating systems. You work easily with complex network and storage systems. Your ability to work alone as well as within a team rounds out your profile. Please apply to xxxx by email with complete cv including requested remuneration.

> In my part of the world (Central Europe / Germany) scale is now the equivalent of approx. $35 an hour.

Clay, I think he actually wrote a total budget of $20...maybe he didn't mean it.


www.derekmok.com

Unfortunately not Mok:-

"Music video editor required"

Fixed Price Project - Est. Budget $25.00 - Posted 4 days ago - View Job Posting

Job Description

We are looking for a quick turn around on a music video where we have all the footage. If you have access to some stock footage then that is a bonus, we are attaching a youtube link from our previous video so it will give you a clear idea of what we are looking for. If you are interested and have the experience to give us the turn around we are looking for then please get in touch"






riiiiiiight .

WM,

Not only do they want an editing job on a six-minute music video for $25, but they also want free stock footage, and they want it fast?

What kind of fantasy world are they living in?


www.derekmok.com

Wow. My daughter does better than that dogsitting.

Maybe that Avid/Nuke/Baselight/AfterEffects/Smoke artist they're looking for here is available?

20 applicants so far Mok - 20. I suppose people are willing to do it just to have the content on their reel.

Like i say if i'm lucky enough to win the job, u may be able to buy not one but two rolls of toilet paper!!!!!! very excited about the job

WM

lets just keep in mind that this advert isn't alone - it's got company. in just two days of looking for work online i've seen many like it in the same 'budget' realm.

so . there are people out there, there are actually people expecting work done for free. $20?? may as well say 2 cents. and the weirdest thing is people are still applying for it. like i say, over 20 apps on that last one.

i know every joe thinks they're a cinematographer now if they have a canon5 or 7d, but is the editing world really THAT saturated? i suppose every year thats gone by theres thousands more kids fresh out of college trying to 'make it' in editing right out the gate.

could be wrong, but.

WM,

There are so many crap personnel out there that the entire field is contaminated. I directed and shot a low-budget music video in 2012 and the artist was going to have a friend edit it, a guy who was supposedly editing reels for theatre groups. When I met with him to check to make sure his system had the specs to handle the footage, it turns out:

1. He had no idea what frame size was.
2. He had no idea what frame rate was.
3. He had no idea what a codec was.
4. He didn't know what settings were available on his Adobe Premiere laptop, nor did he know what settings he's been using to edit with.

And this is the kind of guy who's lowering the standards. His "work" isn't presentable, but he serves to make uninformed clients think that this is what editing is about, and that they can pay $50 to get something done. We have couples planning weddings who are offering $200 for a videographer. What makes people think they would spend thousands on a wedding photographer but only less than 10 per cent of that on video, which takes a lot more work (if a photographer shoots, s/he might be shooting a dozen pictures per minute; if a videographer shoots, he's shooting 100 per cent of the time, 1440 pictures per minute), requires broader skills (eg. audio), system resources and equipment costs?


www.derekmok.com

yes 'd agree Mok . . piss takers .

the wedding thing, i believe is because joe & jane bloggs having seen little tommy with his pc desktop freeware, editing cat videos and think nothing else of it. people still in this day and age don't understand what an editor does, even some 'directors' (the bad ones) don't understand.

this subject could lead into that of chancers, like the chap you were confronted with, the incompetent who was forwarded to edit your music video. equally i've met these people again and again - they have no talent and no ability, just the utmost basic understanding of their field BUT because they have a masters degree is being social and fooling people they're a nice/knowledgeable person - they get work.

from the director who is all about 'the story' and just wants to 'tell stories' . . . but who can't write or formulate stories themselves, to the 'producer' who doesn't know his arse from his elbow - but is instead skilled in bullshitting and confidence scams.

or the editor that gets a job or some work from being highly skilled interpersonally, but who doesn't have a creative or passionate bone in his/her body and is pretty much just a button-pusher.

i digress.

WM,

Please stop calling me Mok. Where I'm from, calling a stranger by his last name is very disrespectful.


www.derekmok.com

sure but i have no idea what you mean. although i did hear once that pointing your feet in someones direction is an insult in some countries, but then not burping after a meal in other countries is considered rude too.

do excuse me i thought you were from america

WM,

if you do wind up in the 'States, my advice is to not go around calling people by their last name!

nm

Wanted Man,

This a bucket of crap with most of these online post. The budgets they have are completely unrealistic. I tried getting jobs from online for about a year and out of say 100 bids i got 2 jobs. A logo for 40. and a info-video for 600. BTW the info video was 1st posted with a 250. budget at first. The video was 8minutes long.

Elance, Freelancer, Jobhub or any of those places have a lot of extreme newbies who have learned to manipulate a motion template and call it GFX work. I have even seen powerpoint or keynote presentations passed off to the public as video work. You also have to take into account that you are competing with the world and some places 100 bucks USD is the equivalent of 1000. here.

I have nearly always freelanced and i would suggest to you that it would be better to prospect in your area and introduce yourself with a hand shake and some reason why the business owners can benefit from using video. Often you will find that they want to do something but just didn't know how to start.

Having an offering that includes everything from concept to delivery will help them say yes and write you a check. You have to gauge your market though. You will also have to estimate the type of time you will put in and what is that worth.

Here is some commercial that was done for 300. - 450.







(all of the slopes bbq commercials get aired on via Comcast)

In the case of slopes it worked as he just wanted to purposely have a terrible commercial that would excite someone to call and complain or just laugh at his commercial.

This is a commercial i did for 1700.

[vimeo.com]

Its simple and it was the last in a series of commercials. It just started running last week.


To say the least, it is the expectation of the client that determines their budget. A person/business owner with a 400. dollar budge that has a commercial in mind like Slopes can not be sold a commercial like the other one due to the budget.
On the other hand, a person who was expecting a commercial like the one i made, who expects to pay say 500. needs a bad commercial to happen to them in order to raise their budget.

Online you need 3rd world pricing half of the time to compete. Shake some hands and you can determine / gauge the acceptable rate. AND ALWAYS HAVE A HIGHER NUMBER TO QUOTE AFTER THE 1ST 10MINUTES OF CONVERSATION, If a potential client is asking specific questions about how or when, you are 40% there, and whats left is rate negotiations.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

well holy sh*t thats me told

WM,

J.Corbett - thanks so much, great reply and very helpful

WM,

I'm from America...born in Montana, grew up throughout the west. I prefer to be called "Shane." Calling people by their last names is a very...jock thing to do. Only really done in sports, where you might have 15 David's or Michael's, and last names are on the uniform. Ross is my family name...my personal name is Shane.

If I am called by my last name, I prefer having a "Mr." put before it.

$20 jobs are for those who are new to things and want to get started. But looking at the quality of the first video...it's production budget was very low too. Filled out with stock footage, and poor shooting covered with enough lens flares to put a kid into an epileptic seizure.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Quote
do excuse me i thought you were from america

Uh...most of us are from America and where I'm from (northeast) you only call someone by their last name if you:

A) Have known them personally a very long time
B) Are very good friends
C) You hate the person so much you do not want to be cordial enough to call them by their first name...in which case, it's an insult.

I highly doubt you are seeing "frequent $20 - $25 budgets". That's not normal. Ever think it's a typo? Did you contact the guy and ask if the budget is REALLY $20 - $25? If this is true, $20 - $25 jobs are insults even to newbies & students (and to have the yambag to even ask for free stock footage - WOW). I would rather use the term "Pro Bono" than book a gig for $20. It is NOT normal.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

1- well pardon me all over the place for damaging any fragile egos. i have absolutely no idea experience or knowledge of what i thought was a casual term, actually being an construed as insult in america. so again - 'pardon me all over the place' .

2- yep, loads of them - people taking the piss on lack-lustre projects expecting them to be done on a dime. i am surprised you even question this as you have google at your finger tips also.

well gee isn't my bottom spanked. lighten up (?) geez ..

WM,

> well pardon me all over the place for damaging any fragile egos.

Ex-cuse me?

You're asking for free help from us, and this is what you give in return?

You're way out of line.


www.derekmok.com

do excuse me i thought this was a 'community forum' .

way out of line? what? what can i say when offence is taken about a small thing i took to be completely normal and use every day?

should i apologise for the colour of my skin as well?

exactly who's out of line here? i totally ment nothing buy it, in fact i'm bemused that it was even mentioned, and now you're saying IM out of line?

completely gobsmacked*

WM,

let it rest folks.
this is blowing out of proportion.


nick