Naming of Clips

this is following on from an earlier thread, few months back:
[www.lafcpug.org]

Quote
conniex (via PM)
I hesitate to raise this subject again but I meant to clarify before: I don't see how I can give a unique name to every single shot across all the projects in FCP. I know I don't want them to be called Untitled (for obvious reasons), but if I name them 1tk1/1tk2/2tk1 etc (British system), then there are still going to be duplicate names across the projects.

I'm sorry to bother you but I need to sort this out but still can't fathom how it can be done. It would be undesirable to use a numbering system where in a new project I had to start the first slate number as, say, 500 - on the basis that the final slate number in the previous project had been 499. I hope this makes sense and that I haven't missed the point.

hi Connie

what you say makes sense, i guess.
my projects are usually bigger, so the media will not co-exist on one drive
and there is not much chance to get files from one project mixed up with files from another

on recent dramas, i also include a scene number.
this is part of the American system, (01-A-1) but i am also doing it now when using the British system. (01-1-1)
this adds a level of differentiation i guess, but as i say i'm not going to be mixing these shots up.

on some docs i've done, i have added the reel# to the clip, along with a (very short) program code,
so r001 and up for a doc called "Rampage" and m001 and up for a doc called "The Miscreants"

we had rather long captures from tape, with multiple shots: scene captures if you will,
so we didn't have an unwieldy number of clips.

if you really wanted to have totally unique file names, then maybe an approach like what i used, but more thorough could be useful:
a program or job number, a reel number, and a clip number


do you mind if we put this up on the board?
i think it's an interesting continuation of the discussion.


nick

> I don't see how I can give a unique name to every single shot across all the projects in FCP.

Why would you need to? Every project has a different set of media. Even I'm not anal-retentive enough to put the project title into the file name of every clip. It makes the clip names too long to manage, and also hinders navigation because even with a short prefix, you would now have the same prefix at the beginning of every clip, which makes it harder to sort and navigate the clips.

Also, when every project has unique file names in itself, even when you have multiple projects on the same drive, the navigation and media connection are still pretty easy. It's very different to have 30 clips called "Untitled1" within one project, from having "Day 01 Clip 01" or "01-01-01" across five different projects. Especially since clips from alternate projects would jump out at you immediately.

> this is part of the American system, (01-A-1) but i am also doing it now when using the British system. (01-1-1)

Apparently the American Cinematographer's Handbook advocates this system "Scene 1A Take 1", and I think it's a horrible system, very outdated, very computer-unfriendly. This system assumes that every scene can be taken care of by just 26 shots. Try that on a multicam action sequence, or a Jackie Chan scene where the coverage involves 2800 takes. You run out of letters very quickly and now you have to use alternate methods, when there was already one readily available, which is to use numbers. I have never used the "01A-01" and the only reason I would do it is if the camera department did so, leaving me no choice but to use their weak, outmoded system. Every director who consults me before the shoot would use "01-01-01" (Scene 1 Shot 1 Take 1) and they've never had problems. It's even faster to type since you can do it all with a number pad.


www.derekmok.com

I haven't read the entire thread, but:

<program name>_<epnumber>_<scene number>_<shot number>_<cam angle>_<take number>

You can include the date of shoot as well if you want further identification at the finder level.



www.strypesinpost.com

Derek wrote-
[ This system assumes that every scene can be taken care of by just 26 shots. Try that on a multicam action sequence, or a Jackie Chan scene where the coverage involves 2800 takes. ]

The system assumes nothing. You might have to hit another book to learn about setup lettering.

Scene 1A - the first camera setup for master scene 1

... and as many takes as needed, each numbered consecutively from 1 to infinity, and beyond.

Scene 1Z - the 26th setup for master scene 1

...then the double-letter slates start.

Scene 1AB - the 27th setup for master scene 1
Scene 1AZ - the 54th setup for master scene 1

...followed by 1AC-AZ, 1AD-Z, 1AE-Z series, etc.

And if necessary, triple letter camera setups. It's endless. Jackie Chan is well served.

For multiple camera marker slates-
A1A for camera A, first camera setup for master scene 1;
B1A for camera B, first camera setup for master scene 1, etc.

As I learned it, the British system was distinguished by a running Production Sound Number, beginning 0001, regardless of scene or slate, which also included "local" slating of scene/take, cross-referenced in the master log book.

- Loren

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I like and use the lettering system as well, it makes sense, it's simple and it's what's on the slate and script sup notes as well.

Typically, in the American system the master shot will just be "Scene 1", then next setup "Scene 1A", and so forth.

> The system assumes nothing. You might have to hit another book to learn about setup lettering.
> Scene 1A - the first camera setup for master scene 1
> ...then the double-letter slates start.
> Scene 1AB - the 27th setup for master scene 1
> Scene 1AZ - the 54th setup for master scene 1

I know all about double letters, thank you very much. It's klutzy as hell. And it means that the 27th shot's takes, in a computer alpha-numeric system, will appear after the first shot's takes. Even worse when you throw in shot variations ("Shot 01" and "Shot 01A" being used to designate a slight variation, such as covering only part of a script or changing the framing a little, rather than a brand-new setup) and multicam (Camera A, Camera B). And if you have 300 setups, I can't think of a bigger pain in the ass than having to distinguish between "Scene 01ABAA" and "Scene 01ABBA". And if you wanted to figure out what "Scene 01XTY" is, you'd have to bring out a calculator.

A system isn't necessarily good just because people used to do it that way.


www.derekmok.com

to make the "American" system computer friendly, i ask for a couple of small changes:

typically 1st setup is scene number, no letter, so: 1
2nd setup is scene number, A: 1A

but in FCP at least, the no-letter slate sorts to the bottom,
so i request first setup 1A, second setup 1B


second modification would be to go to ZA for 27th setup, followed by ZB, etc
but i've yet to get there on our modest Aussie films.

"covering only part of a script" the slate is typically the existing one, with a new take number, plus pu (for pick-up)

i have found that have a letter in the mix can make it slightly easier to read:

12_A-2
vs
12_56-2

but as i say the films i have worked don't have a huge number of setups in each scene.
the trickiest part i have found is when the shooting of a scene is spread over multiple days, especially if they are not consecutive,
then you need a very on-the-ball crew to remember what letter they are up to for that particular scene.

the film i am on at the moment is a very broken up, discontinuous shoot, so i suggested the numerical approach, much to the relief of everyone else!



nick

Derek writes-
[A system isn't necessarily good just because people used to do it that way.]

That's a good point; I feel that way about health insurance and income tax forms.

Yes, it is a system devised long before computers. I find the British "production number" system intriguing on that score. With leading zeroes you get a decent sort. The number simply increases regardless of scene or take. It does however require careful logging on set and in reports.

- Loren

Today's FCP keytip:
Set a motion effect keyframe instantly with Control-K!

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide™ Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com