Too many tracks! - what to do

hi there.

i've been presented with XDCam rushes with 8 tracks of audio, the last four of which are totally blank.

they have also shot 2 (occasionally 3) cameras in a pretty random fashion, making it simpler (it seems) to NOT create multiclips, but to work with stacked clips.


various mics were being sent to various cameras, so all useable audio need to be accessible.

if i bring in all 8 tracks i'll be trying to wrangle 16 tracks of audio in FCP as i edit.


i'm toying with the idea of using QT change to delete the tracks from the QT files themselves.
any one done this?

anyone got some other ideas?
FCPX might have been an option if i had more experience on it (than none!)


thanks,
nick

If you're stacking files, why not just not add the four blank tracks when you add to the timeline? Do that twice and you're down to 8 tracks. Or am I missing something?

You can try this:
1. Drag them all into a timeline.
2. Delete tracks 5 to 8.
3. Hold option and drag them into a new bin. That should create new master clips. You can now delete the oregional master clips in the project.



www.strypesinpost.com

Quote
Jude
Or am I missing something?

well, i'm thinking about what happens when i match frame:
if the master clips have 8 tracks, then i get them all back when i match frame,
and its a bit of a drag having to wrangle the targeting

Quote
Strypes
Hold option and drag them into a new bin. That should create new master clips.

yes, i tried that, and it works well up to a point.
(actually, i tend to copy / paste rather than drag.
dragging sometimes does a whole "Creating Master CLips thing which takes forever, and generally loses the changes I've made)

anyway... new Master clips with only 4 tracks.
match framing from the timeline only has the 4 tracks, so thats cool, UNTIL....

if ever i need to reconnect, then i get all 8 tracks back


i used the demo of QT Change and it worked fine, but only 8 clips at a time, and i'm just wondering about the future: any weird gotchas to beware of?

i wont be doing a LOT of match-framing on this show, but i also like to make things as simple as possible.


nick

I don't see any gotchas, unless the app changes the video format into something you don't really want. Will you need to match back to the masters or will these be new masters? If new masters then you could just consider the XDCam stuff tape backup for emergencies.

our movs are our masters, as no one backed up the cards!

the XML files that accompany the movs refer to there being 8 tracks,
but big deal, right?
not sure why we even need the XMLs...

oh one thing, the XMLs also mention the time the clips was shot.
that might be useful for multlcam syncing as the actual TC is NOT time of day.

we're yet to test these clips in FCPX to see how it syncs them
*maybe* it can see inside the XMLs???


nick

Are you going to multicam or stack? If you're going the multicam route then I'd do a test to see if all the useful metadata is being retained when you strip off the extra audio. But then if you're mutlicaming you can select which audio track to use as you go, from memory, so the audio could stay intact.

And I'd also make a couple of backups of all the master footage (!), given the cards would have been or will be wiped.

Or give FCPX a shot - if you've got the time to do that before your deadline. Or Premiere (although I know you're resistant to Premiere) I think both will sync by audio, which makes it a lot faster to get set up when you've got good audio to grab on to.

Interesting thread, I edited a show recently that had 8 tracks of audio, 5 tracks blank. You really have to love those sound mixers, apparently he just forgot to turn off those tracks.

It was single camera, but even so, sometimes I want to overlay audio from two takes (when a cross fade just doesn't cut it), you end up with 16 tracks.

In that case I just dealt with it, but I would like to know the official best solution if we ever discover it, (a solution that would work past the edit when handing over to different departments would be ideal).

This is interesting. I'm surprised to see XDCAM used for editing; it's not an interframe codec I transcode all such media to ProRes22, and as I recall, I can supress unecessary tracks during the transcode. Either Episode or Compressor, apologies, I forget which-- but somewhere along the line I lose empty tracks I don't need. Might be worth investigating.

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytips:
Copy clip Attributes with Command-C
Paste selected Attributes with Option-V
Remove selected Attributes with Command-Option-V !

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@Nick

IMHO

I am for the transcoding option. I have yet to see those extra tracks mean anything. Its normally an operator error. Don't for get that Soundtrack use to default to 5.1 and if you did not know that you would think there was something to those extra empty audio tracks.

If the audio is already sync'ed to the video and there is no hand off to the audio room then you will be ok transcoding or deleting.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

thanks everyone

working in FCP7, with our crazy multi-cam shooting, it;s simpler to stack the clips than multiclip them.
plus we'll have another track of subtitles.
SO most editing will be done from stacked timelines, either copy / paste or editing from a sequence in the viewer.
meaning there's not a huge need to delete the empty tracks from the files, as they sit in the TL with only their 1st 4 tracks.

i'd kind of like to use QT change to strip the tracks out of the files, but for now am playing it safe.
transcoding is not necessary

also i think i've decided to stick w FCP7. if i was more familiar w X, i do think it would be good, but i'm not partial at learning software on a job like this.
just have to find some time and a smaller job to learn it on

Quote
Loren
This is interesting. I'm surprised to see XDCAM used for editing

it works OK, in fact FCP had presets for it.
it's not *great*, and it sort of wears FCP out thinking about it to much:
i once was working on a 9-way multicam made up of XDCam media, and i just knew to save LOTS!
i got to know what would make it crash, when it was going to crash, etc.

this show is big but not in that way, so we'll be OK, i reckon.

Quote
Joe
8 tracks of audio, 5 tracks blank. You really have to love those sound mixers, apparently he just forgot to turn off those tracks.

our guys kept trying, but just couldn't find the option in the camera menu, and then the track options in the import software wouldnt work.

Quote
Joe
sometimes I want to overlay audio from two takes (when a cross fade just doesn't cut it), you end up with 16 tracks.

yep, been there. i;d much rather not have to.

Quote
Joe
I would like to know the official best solution if we ever discover it, (a solution that would work past the edit when handing over to different departments would be ideal).

it really varies from situation to situation.
it can be dealt with on handover to sound, and sometimes is,
that's generally be on a show where they can afford the time for that: so shows with larger resources,
or shows with more powerful editors, who get to call the shots a bit more.

in the last big show i did i thought they went overboard on the number of tracks recorded, given the situations, but it was a very tight schedule, and i knew there was NO time on the other end, so i cut with all the tracks.

the assistant we had help us with the handovers works for an editor who always cuts with as few dialogue tracks as possible, and was a little taken aback by our 24 or so.

on an film a few years ago, it was synced in the telecine (yes real film!)
so there was no choice but to reconfirm.
this was before the relevant software was around, too, so we just had to get an assistant on for a week to fix it all.
these days there IS software: some works on the DAW end, plus there's one for FCP7 and maybe X, too (Sync N Link)



nick

I'm also delighted see hear how 32-bit FCP7 continues to hold up in a 64-bit world, and even into Yosemite! I continue to use it for longform and have out two hourlong shows into a pro finishing studio which also uses it as a client interaction and launch into Resolve.

FWIW, i got sick of the 8 tracks, so went though and deleted the last 4 (all empty) using QT Change
took a while, but match framing today, so glad i did.

Selecting your target tracks is easier in Avid, where you can swipe with the mouse,
but in FCP Classic it's too time-consuming.

so even now, i don't do that very often,
i tend to do an insert somewhere near where i want the clip, then wrangle the tracks up or down to make it workable.
not your classic 3-point editing.


nick

QT Edit, by our own Jon Chappell, is also good for deleting extra sound tracks.

Dennis Couzin
Berlin, Germany