how to upgrade from dv only systems?

i've got a lab full of macs running fcp. right now, they only edit dv through firewire. were talking of taking it to the next level - being able to edit hd. not just hdv. i haven't had much experience with capture cards and mass storage solutions and so i'm looking for some resources/opinions of what to be looking at. it's a little overwhelming and am looking for a place to start.

true HD for a lab full of macs - YOURE TALKING SERIOUS BUCKS!

call promax, they'll answer all of your questoins, but id almost promise you youre looking at several hundred thousand dollars. capturing is one thing but storage and monitoring is a whole other ball of wax.

Because of system demands I can't tell you how bad I think that idea is. DV has enough technical pratfalls as it is - HD adds a ton more, and because of the demands on a system, it is not at all tolerant of errors.

Go HDV and I won't object.

For one - HD is going to REQUIRE you to go to an xsan storage or the like. That's going to add something like $400 a seat just for the fiber card and cables. Plus several x sans for the lab at about 7k ea.

You won't have any real time effects. You won't be able to play out full frame uncompressed HD unless you get a Cinema screen for each seat at about 2k a pop. Then, with the size of files and such - you are not going to have any portable playback. Input and output decks are up into the $35k tostart, minus and necessary outboard gear.

That's all fine if you've got the $$ to walpaper the room with $100's, but I challenge you to tell me how that's going to imporve a student's education one tiny sliver.

Let them learn to cut, shoot, write and do basic effects, then let them deal with the technical complexities of HD.

If you tell me you want ONE HD capable system, I'd get down off my hind feet.

HTH

Ian

With the new Panasonic P2 HD camera on it's way, it would make sense to go a DVCProHD route to HD, which is much more affordable than the uncompressed route. However, I'd still recommend getting an Xsan setup for any academic editing situation. Went to a demo at U of Ottawa and they were using it in a 5 station DV setup, and they could do DVCProHD too if they wanted.

Yes - Xsan isn't cheap, but it will mean you get much, much more out of your lab as media will be central and any student can take any computer on the san to edit their project. You could use this and have an ingest station and cut your costs associated with decks and the like right down. Just a thought.

Graeme

The other extreme is to keep things simple on the machines, and encourage the students to sneaker net a fw drive. They are then each responsible for their own media management, with no load on the school.

That also lets the school optimize equipment use by dedicating older boxes for log and capture chores, while keeping the newer boxes busy as edit/render stations.

Ian

Yes - that works as well. But either way, you need to plan for what you want and understand the implications etc.

Graeme



[www.nattress.com] - Plugins for FCP-X

Hey Ian and Graeme - what would your list of recommended machinery for a single seat HD station be?

What deck, cards, cables, storage, monitors, broadcast monitor(?), mixer, etc.

Assuming money is no object, which of course it always is, but let's pretend it's not..

OK, so let's say i wanted to setup one station as hd. what would be a solid option? I guess maybe we need to decide what format we would be working with. most of the "students" are accomplished artists working on residencies. I have been toying with the idea of some sort of shared storage so that they could edit from any machine. and also have machines specified for specific tasks/software.

oh i just realized jude posted a similair question.

I have the subjective opinion that Sony gear is a little more rugged and forgiving of bumps than Panasonic. The only problem is cost. Right now, without a TON of work REQUIRING HD format - I wouldn't bet on ant format surviving 5 years. That's a lot of dough to invest in a non essential learning dead end.

Getting the room built and furnished is going to cost as much as the gear. As to equipment and room design - you have many choices. An edit theater type room is closer to commercial reality - but is not designed for collaborative learning. A room with high end graphics station , decent mixing, superb monitor that is on the other side of a wall from the tape room, and has a nice window into the sound room and booth would accommodate more flexible learning.

I still think getting a gob of good lighting gear and a truck to move it is a better investment than a single HD cam. Every single production can benefit from it, and it's a better tool to teach the craft than a single camera. Lighting gear doesn't go old in 3 years with a new technology, and it can be quite rugged.

With lighting and some serious attention to putting a good matte box on the front of a cheaper cam that makes good enough picture to see the effect on ( a dsr 500 or so) will serve more students than a single HD post room.

Ian