Final Cut has been cut

Just wanted to vent....Final Cut has been replaced by AVID on our campus. Only a few areas will have the FCP workstations, but the academic side is saying no more macs and no FCP. The reasoning....AVID is the industry standard and the faculty say that FCP is not.

Sad days ahead

What campus?

Liberty U.

"...Sad Days ahead"

Don't be silly, dude.

Yes, Avid IS the "industry standard"... but FCP is growing in the marketplace and to not teach it is shortsighted on the facility's part. Doesn't mean you shouldn't learn the Avid... it will be valuable tool in your toolbelt when you start interning (especially in a large market like LA).

Academics are not Artists...they are bean counters / wannabe-Artists. The Macintosh is historically an Artist's Machine. For your school to dump the MACS?!?! That is more disappointing and tells all about their motives = $$$ (not "Industry Standards". That's a pretty LAME school administration you have there, Mac! NO VISION! I wouldn't even go to a school that wasn't run by Film Makers / Artists with VISION.

My 2¢

- Joey



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Statement of Purpose (From the Liberty U website)

Liberty University is a Christian academic community in the tradition of evangelical institutions of higher education. As such, Liberty continues the philosophy of education which first gave rise to the university, summarized in the following propositions.

God, the infinite source of all things, has shown us truth through scripture, nature, history, and, above all, in Christ.

Education as the process of teaching and learning involves the whole person, developing the knowledge, values and skills which enable the individual to change freely. Thus it occurs most effectively when both instructor and student are properly related to God and each other through Christ.



Apparently God does not like FCP.

To be honest, I'd be much more for an academic institution teaching Avid than FCP. Why? You can learn FCP on your own much easier. How I wish my old film school had used Avid instead of FCP, because the only way to learn an application for good is by using it day-in, day-out for a year straight. And most of us can't afford to have an Avid at home to practise on, but it's oh so easy to buy an FCP system and practise on your own time.

grafixjoe said "Yes, Avid IS the industry standard"


Right now it may be the industry standard, but as i have said in the last few days i believe FCP WILL be the industry standard in hollywood within ten years, because in my opinion FCP is the superior NLE system for a number of reasons,

"1. it is way less expensive (in my opinion they are equal in quality).

2. FCP is easier to use i have used both not for an extended period but enough to know that FCP is easier.

3. again it's just my opinion but FCP looks WAY better than avid."

these are the reasons i gave in the "I think I hate Avid (stupid rant)" thread

But derekmok gave some very good points that is easier to learn FCP on your own and it's easier (less expensive) for the average person to get a FCP system of their own.





Sean

I assume they will have Avid Xpress or Xpress Pro and that you can have on your own just like FCP. Honestly it doesn't matter even if they went with Vegas. Filmmakers will always gravitate to whatever is handy and affordable once out of school.

INDUSTRY STANDARD...which industry?

Of course the real answer is....

Change schools. There. Easy.

Seriously though...

I spent my university years working an ancient Western Electric audio board with massive pots and no cue channel, spartan turntables, Otari 2 track decks. Stuff will always change. Learn the concepts and no matter the medium, you'll be OK.

Best
Chet Simmons
City of Sin

Mac
I agree with Chet. It's not the tool, it's the craftsman. While I was in college, I worked at a small TV station in L.A. We used Ampex 1200 2" tape machines to edit with! You couldn't even tie the two machines together for an edit. We had to do crash edits by putting a cue tone on the second audio track. I think getting a part time job doing something related to your studies is the key to your success. Now, as I work as a TD on Access Hollywood and other shows, I realize how important it was to learn the concept of what was going on in all aspects of production and adapt to whatever tools may be in front of me.

Hang tough
Kevin Carr

i understood it to mean "hollywood", at least when i said "industry standard" i meant "hollywood" I can't speak for grafixjoe.

none the less sorry i should have been more clear.


Sean

I think Shane's point was that "industry standard" is an elusive term. Among film circles, we'd talk about that standard as being narrative features, where Avid rules supreme at the high end of the spectrum. But that's not the only "industry" that deals with moving images -- you also have public relations, advertising, local television, personal home videos, events planning, news, the web...and Avid is probably *not* the industry standard in quite a few of these industries.

seriously, Liberty U SHOULD USE THE AVID!!!!
(more jobs left for us.......)

First, let me reiterate: Editing is an ART and the tool, what ever it be, is just a tool (Pencil or Pen?) The key thing is to be able to be on a tool that becomes second nature in use. I was an AVID fantic since version 1.4 or somthing. Before that I was on D-Vision and Light works. It is AVID that got me hooked on MACs! It was 3 years ago that I got hooked on FCP... Took me 3 days and I never looked back. Can't even look at an AVID and AVID Express is a sad case of an Edit system. (My friends at AVID, please forgive me!)
I use to teach in college and sadly enough, I was the only instructor that actually worked in the business. So I know how you feel.
Industry standarts are what every studio wants at the time... And guess what? It is different for every studio and Network. One would think that the standart for delivery foramat is DigiBeta, right? So why is it that some still want D-2s? And try figuring out what is Industry standart for HD delivery. D5, HD-Cam or HD-Cam SR... 720P or 1080i?
The bottom line: FCP was the first tool that allowed me to dedicate 99% of my energy to the Artist side of Editing and for that I bless them!
Learn as MANY tools as you can. Where else can you do it but in college? And if your a good Editor it will not matter. And if you become a GREAT Editor using FCP... Come and join us... it is hard to find good Editors that are actualy available!



OSX 10.4.7/G5 Dual 2G/2G Ram/FCP 5.1.2/AJA Io/XRaid with FiberShare

I'm a multimedia developer for a large, PhD-granting university. My experience here suggests that, in the higher education "industry", FCP is the standard.

Either way, I wouldn't fret about it. No matter which industry you'll find yourself editing for, you'll use whatever tool seems appropriate at that time, not at this time. You'll have to learn a new interface now & then -- it's life and it's good.

"...Liberty University is a Christian academic community"

Like I said...beancounters & non-creatives. Everyone knows G_d loves Avid anyway! (j/k)

"...Right now it may be the industry standard, but as i have said in the last few days i believe FCP WILL be the industry standard in hollywood within ten years"

Sean,
Weren't you the one that was flaming me no too long ago for pointing out your lack of punctuation in your posts? Weren't you the one laughing out loud at all of us that you weren't even in the "industry" yet? Have you used both apps in professional environments? You sound very experienced all of a sudden

Hollywood is a very large market... and is a barometer for the Editing Industry... but it is not the entire industry.

Mac,

Learn both - know both... but more importantly, study the CRAFT of Editing. Make good choices.

I don't know what kind of content you could be working with at Liberty, but if you decide to stay there, good luck. Nobody will give a frog's fat a$$ what school you went to, they just want to see your Demo.

- Joey



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

> Sean,
> Weren't you the one that was flaming me no too long ago for pointing out
> your lack of punctuation in your posts?

Hey, everyone, let's keep this impersonal and maintain courtesy, shall we? Just think of Sri Lanka and London, the Gaza Strip and Iraq. Our little Avid-FCP debate seems so, so petty by comparison, doesn't it? Why get upset over something like this?

Thanks for the input everyone! I am good with both AVID and FCP, but just sick of the debate.

Thanks for everything!

Have i used them both professionally? no, but i have used them both enough to know what i'm talking about.


"Sean,
Weren't you the one that was flaming me no too long ago for pointing out your lack of punctuation in your posts?"

Yes but i forgave and forgot (AND fixed my "punctuation" to an extent, granted it's not perfect but it's as good as anyone else here) apparently you haven't forgave or forgotten.

BTW what i have said in this thread is my opinion and no more than that if i came off sounding like i think i'm an expert or i'm experianced sorry i am not i just have an opinion.

"You sound very experienced all of a sudden"

I'm not sure what to take from this comment, but i will say i am no "expert" but i read enough and talk to people enough to make educated comments.

none the less grafixjoe maby i took what you said wrong and it was a complement, i don't know it sounded derogitory and rude to me. When i first came i didn't use good punctuation and you told me i need to fix it so i did. Anyways if you still think poorly of me sorry you have to deal with it this is who i am and i won't change for you or anyone else.


with the best intent

Sean

derekmok wrote:


> Hey, everyone, let's keep this impersonal and maintain
> courtesy, shall we? Just think of Sri Lanka and London, the
> Gaza Strip and Iraq. Our little Avid-FCP debate seems so, so
> petty by comparison, doesn't it? Why get upset over something
> like this?

hey derekmok good point i'm sorry i just couldn't let it go tho i had to say something that is a weakness of mine, but none the less this all seems so stupid compared to innocent people getting killed for no reason.


Thanks

Sean