I think I might change to Avid...

Man, after lastnights demonstration I think I?m going to take the plunge in to AVID Xpress Pro from FCPHD.

What sort of growing pains may I go through in this transition?

Does anyone have any good convincing reasons for me to not make the change? Everytime I watch a demo, i'm feel like FCP is a bit of a toy...

Thanks!
aj

bye! see ya later!


mark

What kind of projects are you going to do? What workflows do you intend to use?

They are comparable products, but Avid Express Pro cannot do HD, even with Mojo. In fact, Mojo cannot do component...it converts a composite signal into an s-video signal. Yes, the Mojo box gives you some more realtime effects, and yes, Avid is cool. Express Pro is a nice way to go if you only do DV or offline cut stuff that will be onlined on a Symphony or tape-to-tape system.

But really, with FCP you get more bang for the buck. And even if you know FCP, Avid has a steep learning curve. Want to work on network series...learn the Avid. As I said, it depends on what you want to do...

Adam,

Nobody here is going to convince you to change. There really is no reason to when you can learn BOTH at today's prices. If you want Avid feedback from Mac users using it every day, go HERE and do a forum search for FCP vs. Avid (there's a lot of heated debate, as you can imagine). I've taken my lumps there for endorsing myself as a FCP HD user:

[www.avid.com]

It's the Express Pro (Mac) forum on Avid.com. I use both and love both for different reasons.

- Joey

BTW: Yes, Avid does do Component 4:2:2 input / output with the optional cable splitter.

[www.avid.com]

and HDV support is coming as a FREE UPGRADE for registered users in December



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Graphixjoe...as I stated...it does the component by using a cable...what you called the cable splitter. That cable splitter (another $80 on top of the $1700 for Mojo) converts the RGB signal down to an s-video signal. Thus you lose any benefit of component video...so no, it really doesn't do Component.

From the Avid site:

Avid Mojo Component Video I/O Option

Avid Mojo supports component input and output via a professional I/O cable option. Two cables are provided - one for input and one for output. Customers who require component video I/O simply connect the cables into Avid Mojo's s-video and composite input and output connectors. The cables each terminate with three BNC connectors for connection to a professional deck.

This solution takes advantage of Avid Mojo's innovative design and portability while providing high quality component video I/O (4:2:2) for customers who require these connections - especially those that wish to take full advantage of Avid Mojo?s 1:1 media capture and playback support.

Maybe Avid has their own definition of "Component", but it's 1:1 Uncompressed 4:2:2 capture & lay off.

Peace



Post Edited (08-25-05 20:51)

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

As an avid Avid user myself, although I haven't used express pro, I can honestly say that if you are planning to use this tool for offline purposes only or to cut a feature film, by all means, Avid is the way to go. If you require a finishing tool, stick with FCP, unless that is if you're loaded and can buy a DS Nitris.
Truly, you get more bang for your buck on FCP and the capture cards you can use with it.

I use both. Honestly, I think Avid's interface is easier to use and just makes more sense; that might be because I'vr been using it the longest. They both have there strengths and weaknesses.

Hi Joe.



"A man that does not reply to his own thread after receiving help truly sucketh."

If one were going to switch macwise, is Express Pro the way to go, or shoud one wait for the mac version of Express Pro HD?

Thanks guys for the replys. Also I'm glad it didn't turn into a flame war.

I do mostly demo reels for some mid/high level actors and need somthing very very reliable. On my last edit FCPHD couldn't find my deck in the middle of a edit. With the client sitting right next to me (ykes).

It looks like xpress can indeed to HD: [www.avid.com]

Well, I guess once i dive in i'll be able to cut in 2 languages so to speak.

Thanks again, and if there are more opinions, i'd love to hear them.

Understand that Tim Wilson could sell ice cubes to Eskimos, so making a decision based on a demo is never a good idea. If Final Cut does what you want it to do than there is no compelling reason to switch unless you like spending another 1700.00 just to add another tool to your box.

AXP is a fine program and there are some wonderful things in there but there are wonderful things in Vegas and Liquid Edition too. And Final Cut. If one of those things will make your job easier, then by all means spend the money and time. But weigh that decision carefully and not just on a demo.

lafcpug's job is not to be evangelistic about Final Cut. We could care less what tool you use. People come here because they choose Final Cut and they need help or just dig the fellowship. That simple.

I think in your case and what you use Final Cut for, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to switch.

From my experience, Avid Xpress Pro loses the deck profile much more than my FCP system. In fact, I have never had FCP not able to connect to any decks, DV, Beta or DBeta.

-CHL

The only time Avid did not recognize my deck is when I didn't turn it on before oppening the app.



"A man that does not reply to his own thread after receiving help truly sucketh."

All of the programs available that would suit your needs have one thing in common. They all have quirks that require workarounds. Since the advent of digital editing, finding workarounds to the software has simply become a part of the process. We are all troubleshooters by nature that's part of why we love to edit. Believe me, Avid has it's own set of quirks as well and when I was an assistant editor, I spent hours trying to work out problems and on the phone with tech support. Remember, there is probably a million lines of code running these programs. Every time they go in and fix a bug they most often create a new hiccup somewhere else. Really, it comes down to which tool suits your needs best.

I believe it's still the case that Xpress Pro only does HD on a PC. We've been waiting for the Mac version for about a year. With the MacIntel boxes announced, AVID seems even more reluctant to address the concerns of G5 users.

From someone who cuts broadcast on both AVID and FCP... I can confidnetly say that Nitris is a superior product to FCP, but Xpress pro with Mojo is NOT.

Adam Duplay

"From someone who cuts broadcast on both AVID and FCP... I can confidnetly say that Nitris is a superior product to FCP, but Xpress pro with Mojo is NOT."

Just curious, what does a Nitis station cost these days?

kevin

adding to what mark said bye see ya in a few years when FCP is the NLE of choice for hollywood.

"I do mostly demo reels for some mid/high level actors"

i'm assuming that you do work in "hollywood".

None the less if that's what you wanna do go for it good luck.

kevin wrote:


> Just curious, what does a Nitis station cost these days?


i could be wrong i may be thinking of another avid system but $90,000 ouch that hurts

I'm using Avid at work and though I haven't worked on Xpress Pro and haven't seen the demo I'll throw in my $0.02 worth.

Each one has advantages and disadvantages. The Adrenaline systems with Unity drives that cost way too much are crashing way too often where I am working.

In addition, Avid tends to remove features on the lower end systems.

I've seen great editors switch from Avid to FCP and I've seen other editors who refuse to touch FCP.

In the end, it doesn't much matter which system you choose as long as it can get the job done.

--Dan

A Nitris will probably run you $125k+ depending on the options.

And... just to add to my point earlier, as you start stepping down the AVID chain (ie-Adreline (mid level) & Xpress PRo (prosumer)) a properly configured FCP uncompressed system will quickly begin to outperform AVID... and it even costs less!


Adam Duplay

aj wrote:

[...]

Does anyone have any good convincing reasons for me to not make the change? Everytime I watch a demo, i'm feel like FCP is a bit of a toy...

______________

Never met a competent editor chosen solely for a job becuase he used this or THAT platform -OR- NLE software. That "toy" has invaded the post world, bigtime, for very good reason and shows no sign of abating... folks at AVID know it, post houses know it, the whole industry knows it -- It's up to AVID to out gun those that sped by them [without notice].

When it comes to today's platforms, hardware and software, there's parity. Only thing left to moan about is editor competency or no project to edit. Conclusions reached regarding a platform/software-hardware based on a demo, ANY kind of demo is folly.

If you want to be sold, the guys at Avid will sell you. There are some experienced editors on here giving some great advice without being inflammatory.

David Healy wrote:

> aj wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Does anyone have any good convincing reasons for me to not make
> the change? Everytime I watch a demo, i'm feel like FCP is a
> bit of a toy...

Then you've never seen a FCP demo. The folks who demo at lafcpug meetings are among the best in the world, so if you think FCP is a "toy" after you see these demos then, it is maybe because you want to see it that way. Only thing I can think of.

And no, there are no convincing reasons for you not to make the switch. Thats not what we do here.

ok ok ok. Everyone please remain calm. I was e-mailing to see what you guys think of avid xpress pro coming from FCP background. I wasn't saying FCP is a toy. I was saying that the demos of avid are very well done and convincing.

Alright, everyone thanks for your answers. Please consider my questions answered. And thanks even more to those who answered without personal insult in both the body and the footnotes of your replys.

Good day to you all.

If you are in the Editor's Guild, you might want to check this out:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Editing: A Side-By-Side Comparison Avid Adrenaline / Apple Final Cut Pro
No Hype, No Spin - You Be the Judge

Thursday, September 29, 2005
DGA Theatre #2
7:30PM

Refreshments Will Be Provided

This event will afford Guild members with a detailed examination of these two
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Topics
Input
Media Management & Project Organization
Editing
Graphics & Effects
Output

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Everyone is calm Adam. I apologize if you read my post as an insult and if you feel I misquoted you on the "toy" reference. Lets end this thread folks. Like I said, it's not our intention or job to convince you to switch tools. That's your job. So just do what you need to do.

Write me off line if you feel I'm being unfair.

Adam,

Take it easy - we're all adults here.

Mike,

I agree with you 1000% that you should never make a decision based on a Demo. If I did that based on the last demo I attended, I would have dumped FCP a few months ago when I attended the worst demonstration of Apple Pro Apps I have ever seen.

I attended a FCP Studio Demo down here in Orlando, FL and it was the worst presentation I ever saw. The presenter (an Apple Certified Demo Artist - no names to protect the innocent) tried to demonstrate Motion2 without the content loaded on the machine, botched the "Dynamic Playback" demo by crashing the machine over & over & over (he kept saying "this machine has been acting up - it may crash, so bear with me). If you were demoing something, wouldn't you have a tested smoking fast box that would not crash? I would. The only thing that worked without crashing was Soundtrack Pro.

Moral of the story = You can't depend on the Demo folks to show you what you should buy. Try it out for yourself.

Mr. Malcolm,

Is that you, tape op

- Joey



Post Edited (08-27-05 11:43)

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Adam wrote:

> and the footnotes of
> your replys.



I am assuming you are refering to my foot notes DO NOT take them personal if you read my post's for the last few weeks those are always my footnotes so don't think that was a personal attack because it wasn't



Sean