Can I...
September 09, 2005 05:52PM
Is it possible to edit a HD 720p project on a G4 IMAC 800mhz 1gb ram with a G-RAID drive? Also I have no video card other than what has been given.
Would I have to render everything, if I was able to do so? How cumbersome might it be, if possible.

And, in order to digitise such footage, the only way would be to use a HD deck or camera. Is that right? (The capture would be through firewire.)

This system would only be used for an off-line edit. The on-line would be done on another, quicker, mac. (G5 dual 2mhz etc.)

Would it be possible to transfer HD to dvc tapes with matching timecode and digitise those tapes, and use those as a reference. Then when it was time to on-line, take the 720X480 sequence and up that to a 720p sequence and re-dig.

Will the "HDVxDV" solve my problem? I read the article, but I am unclear on the conversion. It converts my 1080 or 720 to DV? Would I use a 720p sequence with these converted files or a typical dv 720x480 sequence.

I know this is all confusing....ANY comments would be appreciated.


Re: Can I...
September 09, 2005 06:25PM
i really dont think its even going to be possible...
Re: Can I...
September 09, 2005 07:55PM
But... why can't the HD be downconverted to DVCAM... then generate an EDL, convert that EDL to 24fps, and do a traditional online at a post house? I've done that (1080i, not 720p).
Re: Can I...
September 09, 2005 08:21PM
downconvert all the source footage and all the other documentation and converting? sure but heck, whats your time worth?
Re: Can I...
September 09, 2005 09:40PM
Depends on how much footage, and if the downconverting is done at a lab before he starts...? Am I missing something here?
Re: Can I...
September 10, 2005 12:01AM
Karl, DVCPRO HD runs at 59.94 fps...basically 30fps, not 24 or 23.98.

Yes, if are are stuck offlining on an iMac, make DVCAM dubs with matching code. and forget the EDL...just take the project file, media manage the cut so that it will only capture the footage needed and re-capture the DVCPRO HD masters.

Are you sure you can't buy a G5?
Re: Can I...
September 10, 2005 12:16AM
Thanks for your response everyone.

Karl, would a G5 iMac solve my downconverting problems? Could I then take the HD footage and work with that directly?

I know that a G5 power Mac is probably the way to go. I just wanted to see if I could possibly edit such a project with the G4 iMac.

But that does not seem possible unless I down convert. But even if that is the decision I choose, your responses have been helpful here.

Thank you.

Jim Hughes
Re: Can I...
September 10, 2005 12:30AM
even with a g5 youre still going to need some way to get it in, a RAID to store it and some way to monitor it. the cheapest monitoring method ive seen is an apple 23" and a blackmagic HD link... even the cheapest drive array + card is just over $3k, the monitoring solution is $2k ish add another $3k for a reasonably loaded g5.

youre looking at $8k just to get outta the gate for proper HD, and there is still more you'll need.

the thing ive found is if you have to ask yourself IF you need to go with HD, you probably dont. and we still havent discussed how youre planning to view / distribute the end product.

im sorry to be the voice of negativism. but HD is expensive!
Re: Can I...
September 10, 2005 09:40AM
Apple has flat out stated that you can not edit uncompressed HD on a G4 computer of any kind. The real reason is that a G4 cannot sustain the disk bandwidth to insure proper capture and edit frame by frame. Any of the AJA or BlackMagic capture card need a PCI-X slot to host the HD capture as well.

To do real full resolution uncompressed High Def you would need a G5 Tower with a PCI-X slot, an HD capture card and a disk system capable of 200 MBytes per second or faster for one video stream.

That is $3K for a computer another $500 for RAM - $1.5K for a 23" Display - $1.5K for a Decklink HD Pro or $2.5K for the AJA card - a SCSI RAID with at least 2 Terabytes of sorage (about $5K) - FC Studio at $1.2K and an HD Deck?(perhaps $30-50K) and one DecklinkHD converter and a second 23" Apple Display ($2.12K).

That doesen't even allow for proper color correction if needed, but it will get uncompressed HD into your computer and editable. That is near $15K without a true HD capable tape deck. Also missing are sound components for dealing with multiple channels of audio.

Keeping in mind that the price is DIRT CHEAP at this point in time, WHAT a DEAL!!!
Re: Can I...
September 10, 2005 05:23PM
No kiddin'. I remember a full-blown Media 100 with Beta SP UVW-1800 was around, what $30,000 back in '97?

Kids these days....sheeesh. ;-)

Re: Can I...
September 10, 2005 06:32PM
shoot, the top end software alone was $25k wasnt it? with no computer, no raid and no deck... heck my lowly lx software was $5000...

Re: Can I...
September 11, 2005 05:42AM
This is a confusing thread and there are a lot of different opinions. I hope to offer a little bit of clarity.

First, the requirement for editing HD (any kind: HDV, DVCPRO HD, and UNCOMPRESSED) are 1GHz processor (G4/G5) or faster and minimum 1GB of RAM. So yes, you CAN edit HD on a G4.

Processor's aside, different HD formats have different disk bandwidth requirements. HDV = 3.6MB/s. DVCPRO HD = 6-14MB/s (depending on frame size and frame-rate). Uncompressed 8- and 10-bit HD = 90 - 130MB/s.

The original post, however, asked about using a G4 800 for an OFFLINE edit of an HD project. There are several ways to do this. Since the G4 is not 1GHz, it would have to be offlined using an SD format. In this case, DVCAM would make the most sense.

* HD > DVCAM down-convert at a transfer facility/post-house
* Import the flex file/telecine log from the transfer into FCP/Cinema Tools
* Batch capture and reverse telecine the DV files
* Edit at 23.98fps
* Generate a list from Cinema Tools for re-capture and online on a faster system with an HD card.

Hope that helps....

Paul from Apple
Re: Can I...
April 09, 2006 07:56PM
Can I ask for some clarification here thanks.?

If I am working with downconverted HD source from a panasonic HDV, editing it in FCP 5 in a timeline set for FCP preset DV NTSC, what is the process of outputting later on from the FCP project file back into HDV?

( this HD stuff is confusing....)

thanks for an answer here all.
Re: Can I...
April 09, 2006 08:35PM really need to start a new topic for your new question.

Panasonic HDV? Panasonic doesn't do HDV. DVCPRO HD is Panasonics format.

If you are working with DV downconverts, what you need to do is when you have the project finished and ready to go to tape, you then recapture the footage from the HD masters....color correct and mix audio...then output back to the final format required by your client.


What is your final format supposed to be?
Re: Can I...
April 09, 2006 09:04PM
thanks shane.... i should have done a new topic.

your answer helped. I was momentarily confused about my source and the HD vs downconverting issue. I am new at this stuff.

Do folks downconvert HD footage because is is easier to edit in FCP at SD ( ie less memory, faster render, less drive space?).

Is the process of upconverting edited stuff to its original footage just something a post house does fairly easily with an FCP project file?

Re: Can I...
April 10, 2006 12:21AM
Yes. If they have the project file and the source tapes...and any ohter media like pictures and music and graphics...they can rebuild the cut at full resolution.
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