Who saw the History channel Doc last night???

Hey Shane...........saw your name in the credits.

Really enjoyed the show, I like the slight tilting as you pan the still shots.

Also the rhythm of a cut from interviewer speaking to the mock action or to a still was excellent.

Appreciate all you do here and kinda cool seeing your work.

Neil

Yeah, I saw most of it myself. It was really cool. I still have about an hour on my DVR to finish watching.

Personally, I thought it was excellent, Shane! Really good job. I actually have a lot of questions I'd like to ask, but didn't want to muck up this forum. Little simple stuff like how were you supplied the photos and how much of the compositing work did you do (ie the maps and such). I'm really curious. Let me know if it's OK if I contact you offline.

Steven Gladney

Sometimes the obvious is hidden in plain view.

Steven, have you tried the Private Messages option in the new forum? It's great for what you're talking about.


www.derekmok.com

We can muck up this forum. This way people can learn what was used in the show.

The stills were downloaded from many many sources. Library of Congress (which is public domain), Corbis, Northwind, a book of Chamberlain paintings, a book on Nebel paintings and a small company in England. We had to pay for the rights to use them, except for the Library of Congress ones. Not cheap. We also had 3 stock footage shots of ships that I bumped from DVCAM to HD using compressor. Those were from Corbis and NOT CHEAP. But, they were supposed to give us them on DV50, but gave to me on DV25, so they gave us a discount.

Green screen was all done using Shake.

The maps were done using software called Curious World Maps (ironically, since you were so "curious", and is only used by news organizations for their weather maps. We didn't use them they way we initially wanted, 3-dimensionally like you see Fritz Coleman or Johnny Mountain doing, but they are incredibly detailed maps. Drawback...the software costs $10,000 for the base application and DEM data for North America. Other areas cost more. Reason? Again, small customer base....5 customers in Los Angeles. Well, 6 now.

Hit me. I am full of information.


www.shanerosseditor.com

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We have a show and tell forum. It is for this exact thing so talk away over there. there is already a thread on this started

[www.lafcpug.org]

Michael Horton
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Lets "muck up" the show and tell forum Shane. Really want to get that one going so this is a good one to do it.

I'm going to move this thread over there if I can figure out how.

Michael Horton
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You figured it out...cool.

Now...I have to wait until like WED to find out our ratings. Hoping for above a 2 share.


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I've recorded it and will watch soon but it was opposite the Dodger game last night and nothing takes me away from the Dodgers

Michael Horton
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Shane, I only was able to see a bit, but I have to say EXCELLENT work! The footage looked great, the pan & scan moves were refreshingly different. And what do you know? I learned a bit about history... go figure.

I think the only thing I could criticize, and it's not really a criticism more of an observation, was that there seemed to be a great deal of volume level difference between the talking head and the main narration. Maybe it was just the difference in delivery of the script, and my being tired.

Don't take that wrong... I'm just an audio guy trying to live in a video editors world, and I have learned so much by reading your posts and watching the show.

GREAT JOB!
Steve

Hi Shane:


If you wouldn't mind, could you provide a bit of back ground as to how you got involved in this project.

Questions:

Do you work as an independent editor or are you part of a production house that bid and was awarded part of the project or was this project created with your involved from inception????

How did you approach the History Channel with this project???

How was the project funded????

When you revieved the project had you been on site for any of the shooting????

What was provided to you to work off of or work from????

THANK YOU!!!!!!..........Neil

I didn't notice the audio difference. The levels were the same, hitting at about -12db. So I can't say why it sounded different.

Now, onto Neil's questions:

I am a freelance editor. Production houses and producers seek me out (as was the case here) or I tell production companies that I have worked with before that I am available, or I apply for work at new companies when all other known avenues are closed. My producer called me the instant he received the project, as this was going to be an HD project and he wanted to get me involved from the start. I worked with him researching the topic for a good 6 months before we started shooting the recreations.

The History Channel approached us. Kinda. My producer came to them with an idea that they weren't too keen on. But then they said, "hey, how about this?" So we ended up with this project. Now, you must know that you cannot just approach the History Channel with ideas unless you have a relationship with them. Cold calling doesn't work. My producer just finished a 3 hour speacial on ALEXANDER THE GREAT so he knew them.

They funded the project entirely.

I wasn't on site for any of the shooting, but I developed the workflow before they got to the location.

I received the footage on tape, the P2 footage on a hard drive, a script, and Temp VO that my producer recorded. I downloaded temp music from the composer we both liked, and I loaded more from soundtrack CDs I had. We both downloaded stills from various sources when I needed them, and he scanned several pictures from books on the topic. We had to order the master stills when the project was ready.


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Just finished watching it Shane. GREAT job. Really enjoyed and as a history buff, it taught me much more than I knew. Some great stories in there. Wished the narrator was a bit more commanding but after awhile I just got caught up in the story so that didn't matter.

Looking forward to your next project.

Michael Horton
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Thanks Shane.........

I'd forgotten about the soundtrack which I also thought excellent. The haunting drums, cut amongst action, stills with increase/descraes in volume and behind the VO was very good.

One last question but in the hopes that others ask more questions: when you say "master stills".........are those purchases from museums, or publishing houses, or foundations?? And how did you know where to purchase the "master stills"??? What leads you to where to purchase from???

sailho

Thanks Mike. I learned a lot too. Every show I do is an education.

Neil...stills.

We scan stills from books and download them from the internet. In books they are notated as to where they are from and who has the right. On the internet we use stock footage companies like Corbis or Getty or Northwind (although getty not so much...SPENDY)...or general searches. Hopefully we will find the publisher in the general searches, but often times we can't and I have to replace the still. One still was TOUGH to find. Nicholas Trist, the negotiator. There really weren't that many paintings of him because, well, he was a very minor historical figure. We found one on a book cover, but he was young. Then we found a painting from a school in England. Spendy, and they required us to pretty much put a bibliography in the credits (VERY VERY small).

But most of the time we go to stock footage houses where we know who owns the rights. Not cheap. $10k budget for stills alone.


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Shane........thanks again!!!!

I'm hoping you get more questions from others, I'll keep checking.

Sailho

Question for Shane,
Throughout the making of the show, did you use any other software besides final cut and shake like you've described? Did Photoshop come into play at all or after affects/motion?
Show looked great!

Shane - I too was very entertained by the program. An observation about content; although the program is about a war, cannon fire seemed to occupy a lot of screen time. This is not to say that the story was not well presented. The characters had good presence and the re-enactments were very effective. Pacing was really good. It just leaves me wondering if the amount of cannon fire was used for historical accuracy or effect or just what went in to that decision?

Thanks,
Frank

Kyler...I also used:

- Shake for green screen compositing
- After Effects for the main title and timeline banners, as well as several moves on stills. Although a majority of movement on stills was done in FCP.
- Photoshop to scan the pictures and resize them and smooth out a few rough edges.
- Motion was not used. I tried to use it for Lower Thirds, but was nixed by the network.

Frank, the fact that the US had superior firepower with their canons was a HUGE factor in their winning the war. Superior numbers and cannon placement (as when Lee placed cannons on the hill overlooking the Mexican army). Canons were the deciding factor in this war...and they looked GREAT being fired. So we used them a lot.


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Shane,

Curious. Why did the network nix Motion? Was this before or after you even started using it? What was their specific reason for not wanting you to use it?

Steven Gladney

Sometimes the obvious is hidden in plain view.

Well, for their traditional lower thirds, they have a set backplate and font type that they want. That is History Channel standard. But for the VoiceOver bits, they wanted something different. So I tried a different style backplate, which they nixed. I tried a moving backplate, which they nixed. They just wanted simple text. So I used motion to make one where the smoke revealed the name, but they didn't like it. Too distracting was the reason.


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