Standard def de-interlace

Howdy,

I am creating wishing to create clips for downloading for a web site and am experimenting in compressor. My original footage is mini DV and I want to de-interlace as best as possible. I have made a master (exported to Quick time) of my original footage and have been experimenting with that in Compressor 3.5.2 At this moment I am waiting for a test to compress so I thought I would drop in and ask if someone might have comments or suggestions on my settings or any other setting that might work...Ok right now here is my current summary..

Thanks very much,
Katey

PS You guys might take this for granted but as a newby this is all incredibly awesome!

Name: Test/bestD.I.
Description: H.264 for LANs/Intranets
File Extension: mov
Estimated size: 3.36 MB
Audio Encoder
AAC, Stereo (L R), 44.100 kHz
Video Encoder
Format: QT
Width: 640
Height: 480
Pixel aspect ratio: Square
Crop: None
Padding: None
Frame rate: (100% of source)
Selected: 29.97
Frame Controls On:
Retiming: (Fast) Nearest Frame
Resize Filter: Linear Filter
Deinterlace Filter: Best (Motion Compensated)
Adaptive Details: On
Antialias: 0
Detail Level: 0
Field Output: Progressive
Codec Type: H.264
Multi-pass: On, frame reorder: On
Pixel depth: 24
Spatial quality: 50
Min. Spatial quality: 50
Key frame interval: 150
Temporal quality: 50
Min. temporal quality: 50
Average data rate: 1.405 (Mbps)
Deinterlacing
Algorithm: Odd

I've gotten acceptable results by doing basically what you're doing: racking the controls up to "best" everywhere and letting it run over the weekend. It will break on the first couple frames after an edit, though. That's optical flow's weakness. The best results come from processing all your shots with handles then exporting the whole timeline. But that's just a hell of a lot of work.

Me again...this compression seems to have worked pretty well but it takes it's toll on the titles and makes them kind of noisy/ less clear than the interlaced...

Ah yes, that's another place where optical flow breaks. It doesn't handle superimposed elements very well.

Do you have the option of exporting a textless, deinterlacing to an intermediate format like ProRes, then bringing it back in and applying your supers before finally compressing to H.264?

Thanks Jeff!
...any suggestions on my titling problem?

K

As Jeff mentioned, try to add the titles after conversion. Eg. Create a "clean" copy (without graphics or titles), and send that through Compressor to de-interlace to ProRes. Then send it back to FCP and slap the titles and graphics back on, then encode to H.264.



www.strypesinpost.com

Do you have the option of exporting a textless, deinterlacing to an intermediate format like ProRes,

>>Ok..I have FCP 7.0.2 and can export textless to ProRes ( is that apple pro res 422 in QT conversion? and of so which one: HQ LT PROXY or 444?) and confused there ...does that export de-interlace?

then bringing it back in and applying your supers before finally compressing to H.264?A7

No. Don't touch QT conversion, except for offline reviews.

Keep your settings as they are, and go to Export>Quicktime movie, select "current settings". Send that into Compressor, do what you did, but select prores as the codec instead of h.264. When Compressor is done, pop the clip into a timeline in FCP, then copy your text and graphics into that new sequence.



www.strypesinpost.com

Ok Strypes getting clearer...

Eg. Create a "clean" copy (without graphics or titles), and send that through Compressor to de-interlace to ProRes. Then send it back to FCP and slap the titles and graphics back on, then encode to H.264.

So I do create a clean copy (uncompressed QT) and I haven't looked carefully but you are saying to create an uncompressed (sub master) de-interlaced in Compresser...and that makes sense but I where are the s create Pro Res settings to do that?

And this is a green question but is all this interlacing a strictly standard def issue?

Thanks

k

Ok in File Format of the Inspector there are many formats but non Pro Res..

>where are the s create Pro Res settings to do that?

In Compressor. Type "ProRes", and select "Apple ProRes 422 for Progressive material". In the Frame Controls tab, make sure output fields is set to "progressive", and deinterlace is set to "best".

If you have the storage space to use Uncompressed, then you can also use Uncompressed instead of ProRes.

When Compressor is done, pop the clip into a new timeline in FCP. FCP will ask if you want to conform sequence to clip settings, choose "yes". Go to Sequence>Settings (cmd 0) in the new timeline, and make sure that field dominance has been set to "none". Then copy your original graphics and titles over (would be easier if you had those elements on separate tracks), render and export.


>So I do create a clean copy (uncompressed QT) and I haven't looked carefully but you are saying
>to create an uncompressed (sub master)

You can render to Uncompressed if you want. Or you can export a Quicktime movie at current settings, which should have been set to DV. When you export a Quicktime movie at current settings, no additional compression is introduced except where renders are required.



www.strypesinpost.com

> in File Format of the Inspector there are many formats but non Pro Res..

There's a search tool in Compressor. Use that.



www.strypesinpost.com

Got it Strypes! Case solved!
Many thanks ..til next time..Kate

Strypes...Ok got got my master through the de -interlaced Apple Pro Res..and all is fine. So just checking in on the compression situation now...I would think that it is obvious that I shouldn't de interlace again..right? And I'll go with my previous settings without de-interlace setting...do you suggest turning off frame control?

Thanks,
K

>Ok got got my master through the de -interlaced Apple Pro Res

If you have deinterlaced it via Compressor, it is fine. Then slap on the titles, render and send it back out to Compressor. I'll still leave frame controls on, because you're scaling your 720x480 footage to 640x480 (sq. pixels), although the difference will be very minimal.



www.strypesinpost.com

Thanks S, it's working but putting the footage 12 (7 minute segments) at the settings below is coming in at 32 hours (and growing) It's like I am back in my old G4...is this normal?
K

Name: CrewDwnlds
Description: H.264 for LANs/Intranets
File Extension: mov
Estimated size: 74.42 MB
Audio Encoder
AAC, Stereo (L R), 44.100 kHz
Video Encoder
Format: QT
Width: 640
Height: 480
Pixel aspect ratio: Square
Crop: None
Padding: None
Frame rate: (100% of source)
Selected: 29.97
Frame Controls On:
Retiming: (Fast) Nearest Frame
Resize Filter: Linear Filter
Deinterlace Filter: Best (Motion Compensated)
Adaptive Details: On
Antialias: 0
Detail Level: 0
Field Output: Progressive
Codec Type: H.264
Multi-pass: On, frame reorder: On
Pixel depth: 24
Spatial quality: 50
Min. Spatial quality: 50
Key frame interval: 150
Temporal quality: 50
Min. temporal quality: 50
Average data rate: 1.405 (Mbps)
Deinterlacing

In Frame controls, switch field output to "Same as Source", turn "deinterlace" to "fastest".



www.strypesinpost.com

strypes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In Frame controls, switch field output to "Same as
> Source", turn "deinterlace" to "fastest".

Besides possibly doing the deinterlace again (see last item in following list), it appears that Katey is also using a deinterlace filter (in the Filters tab).

Katey, there are a few other things for you to consider:

- If you used the deinterlacing filter (not in frame controls) on your first pass, you should remove that and re-do your initial deinterlacing run.

- Remove the deinterlacing filter in all cases. In the Filters tab, the deinterlacing Video filter is a legacy filter that does a poor job compared with the Frame Controls.

- Double check your source file in Compressor before doing the conversion (with titles and graphics) to H.264***. Click on it (in the "source well" and look in the Inspector window. Make sure Compressor is recognizing the input video as progressive (Native Field Dominance pop-up menu item). If not, change the input settings for the file. If it doesn't recognize it properly, Compressor will try to deinterlace again. If properly recognized, or properly configured, Compressor won't try to deinterlace it again (strypes' setting recommendation is correct).


-Dave

*** It is non unusual for Compressor to fail to properly recognize the field order settings in source files. It's always a good idea to select your source file and review its properties in the Inspector window before processing any jobs.

>it appears that Katey is also using a deinterlace filter (in the Filters tab).

Good call, D-Mac. Missed that one. Yea, that shouldn't be used at all.



www.strypesinpost.com

Ok thanks for all...and need to take care of the footage w/graphics in a bit...but just in compressing my regular footage(no graphics or titles) (and unchecking the de-interlace in filters) with the below, it is taking a huge amount of time...I did this same footage earlier in "better" in the de-interlaced field. Does "best" add that much time? It barely gets past the first fifth of the first clip on the batch monitor and then keep adding on time...like hours...

K



Name: CrewDwnlds
Description: H.264 for LANs/Intranets
File Extension: mov
Estimated size: 84.06 MB
Audio Encoder
AAC, Stereo (L R), 44.100 kHz
Video Encoder
Format: QT
Width: 640
Height: 480
Pixel aspect ratio: Square
Crop: None
Padding: None
Frame rate: (100% of source)
Selected: 29.97
Frame Controls On:
Retiming: (Fast) Nearest Frame
Resize Filter: Linear Filter
Deinterlace Filter: Best (Motion Compensated)
Adaptive Details: On
Antialias: 0
Detail Level: 0
Field Output: Progressive
Codec Type: H.264
Multi-pass: On, frame reorder: On
Pixel depth: 24
Spatial quality: 50
Min. Spatial quality: 50
Key frame interval: 150
Temporal quality: 50
Min. temporal quality: 50
Average data rate: 1.405 (Mbps)

Katey,

Honestly, your best path would be to select important portions of your piece and do tests on those clips with various settings. You may not need the "Best" setting (in Frame Controls), especially since you are not going from HD to SD resolutions, or vice-versa. In many cases, the highest setting doesn't help more than "better" (next highest) but can add a lot of processing time.

Doing transcoding, conversions, etc., can be tricky. It's isn't a matter of just choosing an Apple preset and running a job (though way too many people tend to behave as it it was true). That's one of the reasons there are actual job titles for compressionist, as there is for colorist, online editor, etc.

Bottom line, testing is good. Try to use clips at least 3 to 5 minutes in length, so that you can extrapolate the processing time needed for a complete piece. You can do shorter clips just to check for quality.

You are close... ;-)


-Dave

P.S. - Don't forget to select the source file and check its properties before processing (to make sure the new ProRes file with graphics and titles is set to "Progressive".

Great Dave and all...I can now understand what a Compressionist might do!
And yes got a good taste...will experiment!
Thanks again,
K

Nope. It's more complicated than that. Here, swallow this:

[mulder.dummwiedeutsch.de]



www.strypesinpost.com