Mastering issues.

Just to be clear...

What you've done already... the downconverted ProRes files you've already created... they may actually be fine... but, you can't know for sure unless you view the material on a properly set-up playback-display system...

Make a sample DVD-Video disc and check it on a proper setup. Or, get a used SD monitor or TV with component inputs, hook it up to your Matrox MXO2, calibrate it, and see how things look...


-Dave

P.S. - I hope that we aren't overwhelming you too much. Everyone is just trying to be as clear as possible and as helpful as possible. No one likes to be under-the-gun when trying to finish a project...

D-Mac, thank you for your post.

No I understand, everyone has been tanning my hide about HDV, but it's affordable, and I'm comfortable with the Sony Pro-sumer cameras, so it's hard to break from my comfort zone. Another reason I have not graduated to "tapeless workflow". Though there is hope as I'm flirting with the idea of tapeless AVCHD for my next film.

I'm a one man show, and after graduating with a degree in Film production, digital video technology took over and there was no one there to say, "Hey, you might want to shoot that 24P" or, "You'll need to batch capture and edit that in Pro-Res, because PC's can't read HDV."

I am not a professional video engineer, however I am very pasionate about film-making.

I have no doubts of my ability to film and produce a feature, however I can't seem to get it off of the computer and onto a DVD. LOL!!!!!

I have a stunning Pro-Res(HQ) QT file of the film, however it's 150 GB's. My Pro-Res version of the film looks horrible, so I must have done somethign wrong as it's been pointed out that I should not be able to tell the difference.

3 hours to go on my "downconvert", at this point I'll just let it finish.

I'm resigned to the fact that come Monday, I may be firing my authoring agent, and to be truthful I might be firing my replication service as well.

I still need to make my Aug 25 deadline.

For those curious, the preview has been on youtube for 2 months, my only success with Compressor, uploading to youtube:

Three hours left? Did you do an excerpt like we were suggesting?


www.derekmok.com

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Carpboy
No I understand, everyone has been tanning my hide about HDV, but it's affordable, and I'm comfortable with the Sony Pro-sumer cameras, so it's hard to break from my comfort zone. Another reason I have not graduated to "tapeless workflow". Though there is hope as I'm flirting with the idea of tapeless AVCHD for my next film.

Actually, HDV is not the end of the world. It all depends. Mastering to HDV is clearly not a best practice. FCP 7 does well editing native in HDV, especially when you render your sequences using ProRes. If you understand the constraints imposed by using any particular camera, acquisition format, editing format, and mastering format, and act accordingly, you are okay. It's about the person using the tools. You use the best tools that your budget allows... it's that simple.
(The motivation/concept is simple, but usually not the actual work... )

Would I do a final render in FCP, or export a master, using HDV or DV-25? No. Once you start adding effects, text/supers, and any filtering (including color correction), you should be using a better editing codec, like ProRes.

I remember a "test" that Graeme Nattress did some years ago (I think it was him). He edited a piece originating on DV-25, finishing it in a better codec (for final rendering, color correction, etc.). He used some denoising or chroma smoothing filters, along with his Film Effects plugins, to create a final output that many people had trouble believing was from DV-25 source. Of course, a good camera shooting DV-25 footage can give you much better-looking pictures (better lens, better depth-of-field control) than a palm-sized camera.

Testing your entire post-production workflow is always essential, especially if you have clients. Everyone can agree on things and everyone stays happy. Testing also helps you to identify problem areas and to budget accordingly...


-Dave

P.S. - A gentle reminder (as Derek just mentioned again)... you need to be able to properly view what you've done so far... and, don't do anything else until you've tested your workflow on a small sample clip...

Sorry Derek, it was already 2 hours in when you chastised me.

I will do a snippet from now on.

I admit, I have not used my rendering time wisley. However, I will take all of your advise to heart, Thank you for your contributions.

I know as an industry professional it's frustrating to know that Noob's are out there struggling with trite BS, but I'm still low on the learning curve for all things HD as I was able to fill my needs with SD-Mini-DV and FCP 2 for nearly a decade.

Don't give up on me Brother!!!!

I'm doing my best, I'm trying to learn.

Thanks again.

Just to be clear, nobody's been tanning your hide about shooting in HDV. Nobody's been tanning your hide at all, but leave that out. HDV is a fine format for acquisition. It's not great, but it's totally usable, and it has the virtue of economy. However, like I said, you should think of it as a read-only format. There are a bunch of reasons ? like deep, nerdy, mathematical reasons ? why it's not the right choice for your intermediates. That's all.

I don't understand why you're stressing out so much about your master being 150 gigabytes. That's exactly the right size ? approximately; ProRes is a variable-data-rate format ? for a 90-minute show. This isn't 1990. A hundred and fifty gigabytes is nothing. There are iPods bigger than that, for crying out loud. If anybody in your production pipeline is giving you a hard time about have a 150-gigabyte master, then yeah, you're working with the wrong people.

(Hint: Whenever anybody you're working with throws a flag on the field on the grounds of "PC's can't X," fire that person immediately and move on. If your tool can't do X, then you damn well switch tools.)

Honestly, don't get let this stuff get to you. Your show is your baby and you want it to be perfect, and that's exactly as it should be. But after you've been around this particular block a few times, you'll come to understand that honestly, your audience really doesn't care as much about this level of detail as you do. You don't want to deliver crap, duh, but at the same time you need to remember that your show doesn't completely suck just because it looks a little compressed on DVD. DVD's a compressed, low-resolution format. Everything looks crummy on DVD. And you know what? Nobody cares. People still sit down to watch films like "Primer" even though it looks fairly crummy, objectively speaking, because the story transcends the technical shortcomings.

If you were working in commercial post and you promised your client that you could deliver a top-shelf product and you were struggling with (forgive me) fairly basic stuff like mastering a finished timeline, then yeah, I'd be the first person to tell you that you're in over your head and that you need to stop making promises to your clients that you can't keep. But that's not how this is. You're making your movie. Screw the technology. Don't let little stuff get in the way of finishing this film and moving on to your next one, 'cause what you learn on this one will make your next one better.

Chin up.

Jeff,

Great post!

And, yeah, "Primer" is a very cool flick...


-Dave

I just watched the preview/trailer on YouTube...

Damned good-looking for "crappy" HDV source footage...


So, Carpboy, are you Don?

Well-done.


-Dave

P.S. - I watched the 1080p version, as well as the 480p version... and, yes, with about 5 times as many pixels (1920 x 1080 versus 853 x 480, just for reference), the 1080p version is an entirely different beast (clarity and visual impact are much greater, as should be expected)...

Thanks Jeff, I really appreciate that last post. I am actually a big fan of Sony Prosumer Cameras.

Normally, I am my only client, the films are mine. However I do have a 7-day shoot coming up next week, my first project for hire. That's a little daunting, considering recent troubles.

Yesterday and today have been a b!+(#, I'm exhausted, but I think a margarita in my near future will smooth things over.

Yes I am Don.

Carpboy is a handle I picked up in college after shooting a bowfishing video based on a guy whose parents were killed by evil flesh-sucking carp!

Which in retrospect I would say is absolutely the stupidest thing on Earth, however with "Piranha 3-D" set to hit theatres, I guess I should've pitched my flesh-sucking carp idea sooner.

Quote
Carpboy
Carpboy is a handle I picked up in college after shooting a bowfishing video based on a guy whose parents were killed by evil flesh-sucking carp!

Yikes! LOL!!!

For some reason, this made me think of "noodling":



"Okie Noodling" Trailer



-Dave

LOL!!!! The fact that you even know what Noodling is just won you huge respect!!!!!