FCP: more than an editing app

"FCP is a visual editing application. Trying to make it do everything I think is a mistake. "Jack of all trades, master of none." I Apple to concentrate on making it the best video editing application out there. Putting in all this compositing and audio mixing abilities will sidetrack them from doing so, IMHO. There are other applications that do that well and integrate with FCP VERY well."

Well, well, well.... not so fast.

Please take this as something said with the most complete respect. But IMO the above paragraph is an example of what I would call a 'web forum truth'. Something that becomes "true" after being repeated so many times. Like "editing stations should not be conected to the internet or be used for e-mail", for example.

I'm not saying that the above opinion is "wrong" or "bad" in any way. But I think it's easy to prove that it's not a "technological fact".

The evidence: Symphony, DS, Autodesk Smoke and others. All those applications are very powerful at both editing AND compositing. They are hardly "masters of no trade" and they certainly are not "clunky and kludgy". In fact, they probably are the golden standard for high end finishing and, if they are not used for everyday cutting, is simply because they are too expensive. Otherwise, it would be a plesure. I would celebrate every inch that FCP makes in that direction. Someone could say that these system cost several hundred dollars. Agreed. But who knows how the economy of scale works for these things? I mean, selling one hundred very expensive systems versus a giant computer company selling a hundred thousand copies of an inexpensive application. The important thing: these applications demonstrate that having powerful compositing features doesn't necessarilly degrade the power of the editing tools. I don't see how having decent masking, keying and keyframe handling would get in the middle of the trim tools.

Those of us who use FCP since 1999 remember that is was originally developed and advertised as an editing application with a powerful compositing side (it kind of was, for the standard in 1999). It was remarkably similar to what After Effects was in the mid 90s. It certainly had After Effects DNA in it, sort of speak. I "bought" this idea back then. However, since that time, low cost NLE applications didn't really follow the increasing sophistication and competitiveness of motion graphics and compositing. We came to a point where the editing application is almost irrelevant for users like me. I use FCP, but I could use Premiere or Avid almost just as well. They are all bad at basic compositing tasks, like keying. And they all are more or less as good as each other for the cutting needs I have (basically assemble the content I make in After Effects, Motion and Cinema 4D, given how little help they offer in this area). Apple needs to better serve people like me with FCP, because someone else will if they don't.

Just my 2 cents.

Adolfo Rozenfeld
Buenos Aires - Argentina
www.adolforozenfeld.com

Here, here!

Of course I agree, but to address Shane's comments - What I need a lot of this for are projects like one I just completed: greenscreen interviews in front of a composited background of animated stills and animation, all of which needed to be timed to correspond with the dialog. Can be done in AE and Motion, but much, much eaiser to do in FCP. After all, what i have going here are 2 edits (foreground/background) which share an audio track and are composited together. Simple in FCP, but difficult in other apps. AE is not an editor, and actually the stock keyer is not very good.

I certainly didn't invent this approach and I see it constantly these days. I like the look of all this, and I'm looking to get better tools to faciltate it and make the task eaiser and faster.

My 1.5 cents. :-)

HarryD

Point taken Adolfo...good one.

You too Harry...I can see what you want to do. I am just really concerned that they get the basics down PAT before they move on. I'd like to see them integrate Automatic Duck into their system for better exporting of OMFs and EDLs cross platform. Still need to address speed change issues with the Media Manager, but they have come a long way.

But to link your wants with what Adolfo pointed out...those other machies can do all that, and look how expensive they are. I'd like to see FCP stay relatively cheap so that more people can afford it so that more talent gets a chance to be discovered and so projects with lower budgets can be accomplished. To add all you want may price it out of many people's range.

But I can see your points. I just think that is asking a bit much for the cost.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

"What I need a lot of this for are projects like one I just completed: greenscreen interviews in front of a composited background of animated stills and animation, all of which needed to be timed to correspond with the dialog".


Of course! What this compartimented view (this is editing, this is motion graphics, this is compositing) doesn't take into account is TV production... TV production means: fast editing, compositing and motion graphics And yet, you want all that with top (or good) quality. It's "broadcast" as in "broadcast quality", after all. I feel FCP hasn't addressed the needs of TV production for some time now.

One thing is Shake/Combustion way of doing multiple masks with per point feather control. And another thing is (as the guy in Jerry McGuire would say) "Show me the beziers"! I have yet to meet a TV editor who doesn't want better masking.


" AE is not an editor, and actually the stock keyer is not very good".

For the record, AE's main keyer is now Keylight (it has been for some time, but you need to install it from the disc). Believe me, it's as good as it gets (I believe they gave The Foundry an Academy Award for it, that's how good it is), as Shake users also know.

"...those other machies can do all that, and look how expensive they are. "

You're surely right. But I also remember I read the figures for FCP copies sold (don't remember the numbers) and it was mindblowing. Who knows if there isn't more development money there than in high-end systems like Smoke? I certainly have no idea.

Adolfo Rozenfeld
Buenos Aires - Argentina
www.adolforozenfeld.com

Quote

AE is not an editor, and actually the stock keyer is not very good

For short form (commercial work), I use AE as an Editor all the time (I do not recommend it for any project above 3 minutes in length, though). There is no "stock keyer" in AE...there are 8 different keying plug-ins plus Keylight (if you install it) makes that 9, a Spill Suppressor & 2 Matte Chokers. Combining & tweaking a few of these plug-ins on a layer can create spectacular results even from the worst ftg. I think the built-in keying tools are pretty gosh-darn good

Quote

For the record, AE's main keyer is now Keylight

Nope...gotta disagree Adolfo. Have you tried Keylight with badly lit DV or HDV ftg? It sucks. In your opinion Keylight is the best...that's cool, but it's not AE's "main" keyer in the public eye in my opinion. Keylight is great for certain types of keys, but I personally still use combinations of key tools, masks & matte plug-ins depending on the keyable ftg. That's the beauty of AE...there is no "main" solution...there's always a dozen ways to accompish something and they're all different

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

You're comparing the keying stuff COSA did for After Effects 2.0 in 1993 with Keylight?
Anyway, let's not hijack the amazing feature request thread with OT AE stuff. Let's continue this through our personal e-mails, though. You know where the address is....

Adolfo Rozenfeld
Buenos Aires - Argentina
www.adolforozenfeld.com