Audio Import and file metadata handling

So again (day 2) I try to understand the way FCPX works.

I can import my BWAV audio fine. In FCP 7 or earlier the metadata came in fine (years ago I told Apple how to do).
Now I can't find them any more, that's point 1 and maybe my fault.
Point 2 is how can I sort material. There is no browser, no bins, no metadata columns and can't sort by scene for example - again maybe I'm too new to this app.
Point 3, how to merge clips? If take the single mono audio channels and use the Synchronize feature they are out of sync (have an echo effect).

Maybe there is somebody out there who can shed some light on that

Regards
Andreas

Some workflow tools for FCP [www.spherico.com]
TitleExchange -- juggle titles within FCS, FCPX and many other apps.
[www.spherico.com]

Point 2. You can create keyword collections and drag the shots in. Keyword collections are the new bins. Use the smart collection tool to sift for shots you haven't keyword collected yet.



www.strypesinpost.com

Thanks Gerard.

But how to create keyword collections if I don't know the keywords i.e. scene etc.
Even if I do enter the basic metadata like scene/take/note manually, how do I sort those by scene.

I spoke to an Apple Support guy today and he told me that BWAV files from Aaton, Sound Devices, Zaxcom etc are not compatible with iTunes metadata handling and therefore no metadata will be imported. But I can send some files and they will have a look. I also could file a bug since merged/synced clips lose their start TC even though they have the same start TC.

I feel a little bit lost within this app right now.

Andreas

Andreas Kiel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So again (day 2) I try to understand the way FCPX
> works.
>
> I can import my BWAV audio fine. In FCP 7 or
> earlier the metadata came in fine (years ago I
> told Apple how to do).
> Now I can't find them any more, that's point 1 and
> maybe my fault.
> Point 2 is how can I sort material. There is no
> browser, no bins, no metadata columns and can't
> sort by scene for example - again maybe I'm too
> new to this app.
> Point 3, how to merge clips? If take the single
> mono audio channels and use the Synchronize
> feature they are out of sync (have an echo
> effect).
>
> Maybe there is somebody out there who can shed
> some light on that
>
> Regards
> Andreas

My first best advice for questions like this are either read the manual or go through one of the available trainings. FCPX is so alien to other NLEs trying to learn piecemeal will likely be a frustrating experience. There's an interlocking logic to the app. Without that background it's sort of like what a give word means in a new language without also learning the grammar and syntax.

Look at the inspector for metadata.
List view has most of the columns found in FCP7 and you can turn on and off the columns and move the order around.
Compound Clips are an improved form of "nesting" or "merging" but they're also different. FCPX allows subframe audio editing down to the sample, shows subframes in 1/80 of a frame increments and allows one to shift the audio relative to the video within a frame much more easily than FCP7.

Craig,

Thanks for trying to help.

I've searched the manual upfront, I've searched the little Apple FAQ, I've called Apple Support.
Nowhere there is anything about import industry standard BWAV metadata - as they are not compatible with iTunes (Apple support told me).

So what's about keyword collections if I don't the the keyword and don't have any metadata - can't make sort it out.
I meanwhile realized that keywords are a flexible replacement for bins.

Synchronyse Clip either work by using checking timecode is not found using In or using Audio. I haven't found a way to influence - maybe that's the main point for me. Maybe there is an option, but I haven't found it.
With audio it should be pretty simple as the start tc is the same for each mono track, duration matches. But obviously for whatever reason that doesn't work in every case.
Having 1/80 of a second frame increments is nice (BTW had been 1/100s before), but it doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't make too much sense to bring 'tracks' out of sync to make them the same sync they originally had.
Okay I can use WaveAgent to create polyphonic files upfront, they seem to work fine regarding sync.
But the metadata are obviously lost as well.

Maybe it will be back soon, but for the moment I want to figure out what's working now.

Regards
Andreas

Subframes are 1/80th of the frame rate - so at 25p that's 1/2000th of a second. That's precise enough for most purposes...


Alex

___________________________________________________
Alexandre Gollner,
Editor, Zone 2-North West, London

alex4d on twitter, facebook, .wordpress.com + .com

In the Final Cut Pro Help, look under Supported Media Formats. Under Audio Formats it says:

AAC
AIFF
BWF
CAF
MP3
MP4
WAV

Not that the document is complete as it doesn't list PCM either although one might call that a "cousin" of AIFF. BWAV, although also a "cousin" of WAV, isn't listed.

I think some people are finding issues with Synchronize but I'd thought I'd point out, although a workaround, one can bring things back into sync. The actually movement is much greater than 1/80th of a frame. I've tested and I can move within a subframe. The frustrating thing is that there's nothing that measures units smaller than 1/80 of a frame and snapping doesn't work to the subframe in my testing so far. Zoom all the way in on the timeline and move an audio track and you should see this behavior. It's easy to shift things into sync looking at the waveforms and, just as easy to throw them out of sync. It's not very "magnetic" at that level.

Certainly FCPX metadata support is incomplete like many other aspects of the program.

Make sure you use the built in Feedback form in FCPX.

The underlying AV Foundation architecture allows for increments of 1/192,000th of second.

Alex4D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The underlying AV Foundation architecture allows
> for increments of 1/192,000th of second.

But I am finding I can move things within (smaller increments than) 1/80 of a frame . . . and surprising that it does not snap to 1/80th of a frame. Maybe I should double check that but that's the behavior I spotted when I zoomed in, turned the timer display to include subframes and moved audio files by hand.

Quote
Alex
Subframes are 1/80th of the frame rate - so at 25p that's 1/2000th of a second. That's precise enough for most purposes...

Alex,
It was not the issue how I can fine tune offsets - as said it's fine - the issue was that I have to do obviously even though in theory stuff should be in sync. I was looking for some option to find something where I can tell FCP how to sync, which seems not to be there.
Also - as said - I can use WaveAgent to create polyphonic files before working with the audio in FCPX

Quote
Craig
In the Final Cut Pro Help, look under Supported Media Formats. Under Audio Formats it says:

AAC
AIFF
BWF
CAF
MP3
MP4
WAV

I put a few upfront. BWF (Broadcast Wave Format) is BWAV the .bwf extension had been/is also used for Lotus database files. Many, many years ago I had a long discussion with both Apple developers and those developers of audio recorders. The EBU who developed the format clearly says that the file extension should be .wav as it is a .wav file (okay could be mpeg as well, but nobody does use that).
Apple agreed not to interpret .bwf as an exotic Lotus database text file any more but to look to the file as '.wav' file. That made 1000's of people here in Europe happy way before Mr. Murch started editing with FCP and double sound.
Years later, after I've created a simple app to wrap '.bwf' files into QT wrappers - and also created Batch Lists for import into FCP - Apple took over the ideas and workflow (not as good as I did, but finally okay). Pete Steinauer in a personal conversation said 'sorry we did steel somehow from you'. Apple had been beta testers all the time for me. There had been an Apple White Paper for 'Hollywood Production' whatever that meant which said 'use that third party software to be on the safe side'.

Now I'm back again at a state like with FCP 1 or 2 and try to figure out.
And I really appreciate all the input and help I get here.

Andreas

Some workflow tools for FCP [www.spherico.com]
TitleExchange -- juggle titles within FCS, FCPX and many other apps.
[www.spherico.com]