OPPORTUNITY - WHO THE PRO'S ARE!!!!

This is an excellent opportunity to tell who the Professional Editors are..... They will be the ones that hate FCPX!

All the other, the ones who say, hey, I Love it, all my old iMovie projects import into it!

Or, what's your problem? I didn't upgrade to OSX when it first was released, I didn't update from my OS9 until OS X 10.3!

Oh yeah, Apple will be updating it soon, to include all those features you're missing (which took 10 years for Apple to do that the first time)!

In the meantime, you can buy a Dell PC with Windows 7 and MediaComposer 5.5 at at least 1/2 the price, or we could all start using Adobe Premiere Pro?

Anyway.....

If you're looking for an editor, ask them what they think of FCPX, if they say they hate it, you know that's a pro, then it's experience after that and talent.

Robert Moore
WOOMZA.com
Santa Monica, CA 90402
USA
Email: rmoore@andrita.com

Not sure what your definition of "Pro" is?

Regardless, Even a "PRO" should see some of the good that FCPX might be able to bring to the table down the line. Sure not in this release, and it's definitely not ready for primetime, but there is some groundwork being laid that may pay off in a couple of years. In my few hours of playing, there is definitely some interesting workflow things that might just make my first cuts quicker. While I would never cut a normal budgeted feature with it currently, there are things I think are promising that I would like to see enhanced when it comes to the actual process of editing.

In fact I already am in love with the lack of the source side. I thought I would hate it. I was wrong. I love having decent sized icons that I can play directly in marking in n out. It will make it much easier for me to keep track of takes and so on.

I'm spoiled though since I'm one of those "pros" that pretty much only cut studio features so I have less to complain about than "boutique" style operations that rely on multiple workflows for input/output needs to happen with their smaller things. I'm also technical enough to not stress over avid/fcp/premiere, as I own and can use 'em all. I learned early on in my career that being versatile isn't a bad thing.

Back in 01 when I was still assisting, I never thought I'd actually cut a studio feature using FCP when I was playing with FCP 1.5 on a ibook while I was still on ABVB Avids. People tend to forget it took a few versions the first time around for it to take hold in a "pro" environment. I see this release as no different. Again though I don't make my living off of the software, I make my living off my creativity.

Actually Robert a "Pro" editor could cut a good show on Windows Movie maker if they had to.

Most of the people complaining don't know what they are on about and either haven't used it or haven't read the manual.

The few legitimate whiners that actually work in the high-end professionally have specific requirements that the software doesn't do...

...yet.

I'm not totally sold on v1 due to a few of the output and audio limitations (not the new workflow or timeline though) and personally I cannot use FCPX for most of my workflows; as the monitoring for broadcast and film is not there yet - might just be until RED, AJA and Blackmagic release drivers for it though.


I've been an Avid editor since 1994 - I've cut on Lightworks, Media 100, Premiere, Edit DV and (amongst a few more obscure systems) FCP since 1999 right up to FCP 7.0.3 which I will stay on until FCPX get the updates I need to work.

I see what Apple are intending and yes they screwed up by not having a public beta and/or long developer lead time before launch. However you might want to bookmark this thread as within the year you might find you have totally changed your mind.

The tools might not be what you want or are used to - but if you want to be a "pro" and get work then learn them so that you can apply your craft.


And how do we define "Pro"? How about reading the manual - hint: it's sometimes known as a dictionary...

Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behaviour.
Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional filmmaker.
Performed by persons receiving pay: professional editor.
Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional job.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Quote

If you're looking for an editor, ask them what they think of FCPX, if they say they hate it, you know that's a pro, then it's experience after that and talent.

Sorry but that has to contend for one of the daftest things to be said on the forums... its like saying that if you don't use the most expensive fountain pen then your not a professional writer - it don't work like that. There are some PROfessions where fcpx is not ready to replace fcp7 as a tool that fits into the currently used workflows. but likewise i can see some PROfessional wedding photographers etc being able to use fcpx very happily right now.

Robert,

That is a wild generalization. Speak for yourself. You certainly do not speak for all users.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

All "pro" is - is getting paid for the job. Beyond that it's an attitude.

Graeme

Exactly Josh...

Certainly Online (web) content producers will be all over FCPX when they get past the whinging.

Basically...

if you don't have to use legacy projects

if you don't do broadcast

if you don't do film

then FCPX might actually be perfect for you now (hopefully the other pro-markets soon!)


I haven't had my grubby mitts on FCPX for long enough yet to make really informed decision about what it can be used for and what it can't. There are a lot of workflow changes I need to get my head round before I call foul like a great many people.

If like me you are a freelance, but also own your own kit, then learning FCPX will certainly be a positive skill to acquire.

We might not like it, but I know for a fact that it will be used by a great many people and companies in the coming months/years and if we get a offer of work whether it be for for Avid, Premiere, FCP7 or FCPX I want to be able to say yes I can edit on that - show me the money!

...and so I am slightly offended by the "know who the Pro's are" remark as I happen to work as a senior editor in TV and Film and consider myself extremely professional both creatively and technically and on an interpersonal level too.

But alas... [cue-pathetic-looking-back-of-hand-on-brow-Shakespearian-pose]

...you are free to speak of what you desire - I suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous Avid colleagues spinning lies about ef see pea over the years. It bothers me not.

I will learn yet; the ef sea pee cross and despite it's current and most grievous failings; will try to appeal Apple - to turn the tide of "pro-pinions" with sorely needed updates thus proving that being stuck to the toffee Apple and its stylish-user-friendly-tech was neither a total waste of time nor folly on my part.

Whither I succeed or I doth fail... only time and tide will tell. [bow]

[boos and cabbages thrown from the crowd]



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Ben King Wrote:
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> Actually Robert a "Pro" editor could cut a good
> show on Windows Movie maker if they had to.

That's absolutely the truth. Tools help, and better tools help more, but in the end it's the talent and experience that gets the job done. You could give Tiger Woods or Rory McIlroy a set of golf clubs you picked up at a yard sale, and I'd give odds they could still break par at your local golf course.

Ben King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually Robert a "Pro" editor could cut a good
> show on Windows Movie maker if they had to.

Actually Pro editors used to cut fine programmes on control track / non-frame accurate 2 machine VHS suites - they just occasionally needed a little creative interpretation at the online stage... I think Woomza may have meant Pro in the 'broadcast editor' sense, that's all.

I used to think that a pro was someone who made a living as an editor. I guess I am a pro because I do but I do allot of jobs and see editors who are absolutely horrible who make tons of money professionally and I have seen people who had no experience at all go out and shoot and edit their own documentary and it was obvious they were an innate editing genius out of the gate. So I don't know if pro means good. And I don't know if amateur means bad.

Also to the Woomza. Not saying you should move over to Avid but if you do you can run it on a mac, ya don't need a pc but overall it won't run as well as software only, ya gotta drop some dime on the Avid hardware for it to jam.

The pros get on with the job of editing because they know they can do the job done with whatever equip. is available. Sure it makes the job easier to top of the line gear. However I don't think I became a better editor when I got to use upright moviolas & flatbed Steenbecks. I suspect I was better when I edited using a Moviescop, a pair of Moviola rewinds a tape splicer & a sync block.

Personally I find FCP X to be a good editing machine. Will I use it in preferance to FCP 7, not for some time. However I plan to spend some time on it daily, so that I have the learning curve well behind me when version 2 arrives. if any work comes along in the meantime that cannot be done by FCP Studio 3, then I will use whatever is appropriate to get the job done. I don't feel I have to be dependent on any equipt. supplier to be an editor.

Dave

Perhaps the Pros are the one who can spell the word "pros?"

Some think being Apple Certified maks one a pro. Belt & suspenders.

Quote
rodders
Rodney Sims Wrote:
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> Ben King Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually Robert a "Pro" editor could cut a good
>
> > show on Windows Movie maker if they had to.
>
> Actually Pro editors used to cut fine programmes
> on control track / non-frame accurate 2 machine
> VHS suites - they just occasionally needed a
> little creative interpretation at the online
> stage... I think Woomza may have meant Pro in the
> 'broadcast editor' sense, that's all.

i cut me teeth on that back in the mid 90's, fantastic stuff, 3 second blind gap, thrilling

My reference to Professional Editors is in regards to the Film and TV industry Editors, those cutting for Feature Film, Indie Film, Episodic TV, Reality TV, Movies.... Commercial, Promo, Trailer..... those that are in The Motion Picture Editors Guild and non-union.... all of these Professional Editors absolutely have to be able to share EDL's, XML's, OMF's, AAF's..... they need to be able to work with Film Cut Lists, they need to be able to capture from and output to "tape", as well as all need to work with file based systems, which we all do!

FCPX being a file based only system, truly limits it to Film and TV Industry Professionals. And besides, FCP7 already can be file based and has always been, so that as a selling point for FCPX, it is not a selling point! Many of us have been Tapeless HD for many years!

Certainly, anyone who makes a living using any video editing system, is also a professional. Wedding Video producers, are certainly professionals as well and may very well be able to use FCPX for that work.

But for Film and TV Industry professionals, FCPX simply can not do the job.

If Apple continues on the FCPX trend and does not bring back FCP7 (FCStudio 3), then I suspect many Film and TV Industry Professionals and the Film and TV Studios, will be dropping FCP and likley Apple completely and go with Windows 7 and MediaComposer 5.5, which is very good, an industry standard (Avid) and at a cost of 1/2 to 1/4 that of a MacPro.

I really hope Apple wakes up soon and renames FCPX to iMovieX and re-starts sales of FCStudio 3 and continues development and support of FCP7.

For me, I just invested around $150k into upgrading 27 FCP editing systems (22 MacPro's, 5 G5's), including replacing 5 old G5's to newest MacPro 12core and FCStudio 3, as well as added 32TB to our Xsan and SANmp and I know we'll be good for another 6 years. In the meantime, we also upgraded to 27 copies of the newest Adobe CS 5.5 Production Premium, and as part of the new systems, have included a simple, training/tutorial of Adobe Premiere Pro, just in case. (We also have Avid's here.).

I have not given up at all on Apple..... I wish them well and plan to be with them for many years to come.....

Robert Moore
WOOMZA.com
Santa Monica, CA 90402
USA
Email: rmoore@andrita.com