Which Mac to buy? SDI capture, lots of color correction, mpeg2 compression...

Hi,

We have an early 2008 Mac Pro (with 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processors) that is dying and it's so old that Apple won't repair it. It is currently our only computer, except for two iPhones. We choose this Mac in 2008 mainly to do a large project for a non-profit pro bono. We need to digitize about 400 hours of material that ranges from Digibeta from rank film transfers to SVHS. Most of the footage needs to be color corrected, made available on DVD, and archived.

I spent about a year part time learning how to use the HW and SW to do what I needed to, to do this project. At that point I started having health problems, which prevented further progress. Now that my health is improving to the point that working on this again seems feasible there are two problems:
1. We need a new Mac.
2. I have forgotten most of what I learned how to do, and the SW and HW that I learned to use are probably obsolete anyway.

Forgetting and obsolescence make choosing a newer Mac for this project, without good advice, impossible.

Would it make sense to buy an inexpensive Mac now for general use, they buy a more expensive model later for video capture and rendering, or are powerful computers, with the interfaces required for SDI capture and storage gotten inexpensive enough that that doesn't make sense?

We are not poor, but saving money is important.

Any advice will really be appreciated!

Thank You!

Best Wishes!

Mitch

Since you mention color correction and compression so that's an important indicator. Since Digitbeta is standard def you may (or may not) need to upscale to HD as well.
I'm not sure why you mention an "inexpensive Mac for general purpose" unless you're implying you want to continue to delay the project.

You probably would want at least a new 27" iMac Retina with an upgraded GPU (color correction can be GPU intensive). You'd want it to be a Quad i7 since encoding can be processor intensive and, upscaling if you're going to do that as well.
If you're dealing with a lot of volume and complex ongoing projects a new MacPro might have some value.

For input you may want a Blackmagic UtlraStudio Express to Thunderbolt. Not only does it have SDI (and HDMI) which will work with Digibeta it has a breakout cable for analog composite, component and S-Video sources which can help if you're capturing from S-VHS. It also has RS422 support which may help if you need deck control of a Digibeta deck.
[www.blackmagicdesign.com]

If you're going to Grade in FCPX I'd strongly recommend getting Color Finale otherwise you can use the Free DaVinci Resolve. If you're going to do a lot of noise reduction given the sources you'd want the Paid DaVinci Resolve or, if doing it all in FCPX, Neat Video for noise reduction.

DaVinci Resolve
[www.blackmagicdesign.com]

Color Finale plugin for FCPX
[try.colorgradingcentral.com]

Neat Video. Don't off put by their webpage which looks like it's from the 1980s. It's about the best noise reduction plugin on the market. It's extremely resource intensive.
[www.neatvideo.com]

If you need to move a project from FCP7 to FCPX you'd want to get Intelligent Assistance 7toX
[itunes.apple.com]

Thanks Craig!

Quote
Craig
You probably would want at least a new 27" iMac Retina with an upgraded GPU (color correction can be GPU intensive). You'd want it to be a Quad i7 since encoding can be processor intensive and, upscaling if you're going to do that as well.

Do you mean this GPU "Intel Iris Pro Graphics 6200" from Apple or a third party GPU? If third party would you please recommend either a specific GPU or a range of acceptable alternatives?

Thanks Again!

Best Wishes!

Mitch

There are no third party GPUs for current Mac models, just build to order options.
You'd want AMD Radeon R9 M395X with 4GB of GDDR5 memory if you're going to be using Resolve. That's the top option on the 27" iMac.
I wouldn't want to be limited to the Iris Pro except for general purpose work or light editing. Even a lot of FX plugins depend on the GPU these days.

Hi Craig,

New iMac's are probably out of our price range:
$2,899 512 GB SSD 16GB RAM - AMD Radeon R9 M395X with 2GB
$3,199 512 GB SSD 16GB RAM - AMD Radeon R9 M395X with 4GB
What do you think about a used iMac, configured like this?:

Quote

About $1,700
Apple 27-inch iMac 3.4GHz Core i7 "Mid 2011" with Thunderbolt, 16GB DDR3, 3.0TB HDD + 256GB SSD Fusion, SuperDrive, AirPort 802.11n, & Bluetooth

AMD Radeon HD 6970M graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory

Thank You Very Much!

Best Wishes!

Mitch

Having used a 2011 15" Quad i7 MBP which is similar CPU, it's going to be be sluggish for some things. Editing will be OK. FX work will be difficult as well as some grading. If you can find late 2013 27" Quad i7 it would be much better.

craig seeman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having used a 2011 15" Quad i7 MBP which is similar CPU, it's going to be be sluggish
> for some things. Editing will be OK. FX work will be difficult as well as some grading. If
> you can find late 2013 27" Quad i7 it would be much better.

Thanks Again!

Best Wishes!

Mitch

Hi Craig,

craig seeman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're dealing with a lot of volume and complex ongoing projects a new MacPro
> might have some value.

We do have a lot of material, and a lot of color correction. I think we can get a refurb MacPro with a monitor, equivalent to the middle configuration below (in bold) for roughly the same price as an iMac.

> If you're going to Grade in FCPX I'd strongly recommend getting Color Finale otherwise you can
> use the Free DaVinci Resolve.

Rob has some interesting results comparing the iMac with some MacPro's here:
[barefeats.com]

Quote
barefeats.com
nMP 8c D700 = 'late 2013' Mac Pro 3.0GHz 8-Core Xeon;
FirePro D700*2 (6G GDDR5 each); 32G RAM; 512G Apple (XP941) Flash

nMP 6c D500 = 'late 2013' Mac Pro 3.5GHz 6-Core Xeon;
FirePro D500*2 (4G GDDR5 each); 16G RAM; 512G Apple (XP941) Flash

nMP 4c D300 = 'late 2013' Mac Pro 3.7GHz 4-Core Xeon;
FirePro D300*2 (2G GDDR5 each); 16G RAM; 512G Apple (XP941) Flash

It looks like the MacPro middle configuration rendering in FCPX and DaVinci Resolve ranges from a little bit to a lot faster than the iMac. Would the color correction rendering be faster with that MacPro using either Color Finale or the Free DaVinci Resolve? If so how much faster?

Will the resulting video quality be equal with both of the above (any degradation with either)?

Is either of those easier to use (learning curve)?

Does either of those render subtantially faster?

>If you're going to do a lot of noise reduction given the sources you'd want the
>Paid DaVinci Resolve or, if doing it all in FCPX, Neat Video for noise reduction.

We will be using a Teranex Mini for noise reduction (hardware with SDI input and output).

> DaVinci Resolve
> [www.blackmagicdesign.com]
> esolve/compare
>
> Color Finale plugin for FCPX
> [try.colorgradingcentral.com]

Thanks Again !

Best Wishes!

Mitch

Hi Craig,

>If you're going to Grade in FCPX I'd strongly recommend getting
>Color Finale otherwise you can use the Free DaVinci Resolve.

Rob has some interesting results comparing the latest iMac's with some MacPro's here:
http://barefeats.com/imac5k13.html
It looks like with the following MacPro configuration rendering in FCPX is a little bit slower, but with DaVinci Resolve (blur and noise reduction) it"s lot faster than the iMac. Would the color correction rendering also be similarly faster than the iMac's with that MacPro or with the 6-Core MacPro using either Color Finale or the Free DaVinci Resolve?

Quote

nMP 4c D300 = 'late 2013' Mac Pro 3.7GHz 4-Core Xeon;
FirePro D300*2 (2G GDDR5 each); 16G RAM; 512G Apple (XP941)

[/img]





Will the resulting video quality be equal with both of the above (any degradation with either)?

It looks like Color Finale would be easier to learn to use?

Do either of those render subtantially faster?

> If you're going to do a lot of noise reduction given the sources you'd want the Paid DaVinci
> Resolve or, if doing it all in FCPX, Neat Video for noise reduction.

FYI: We will be using a Teranex Mini for noise reduction (hardware with SDI input and output).

Thanks Again, Very Very Much!

Best Wishes!

Mitch

Hi Craig,

I just got a Mac Pro on ebay.

[www.ebay.com]
$3,160.00 plus $50.00 for shipping:

Quote
ebay
Mac Pro 3.5GHZ 6 Core Intel Xeon 32GB Ram 512SSD PCIe-based flash storage, Dual D500 Gpu's

I don't think I would have ended up with this system without your advice. I really appreciate your help!

Thanks Again !

Best Wishes!

Mitch

A much belated you're welcome and happy new year.
I think you've made a good choice for your ensuing work.