MOTION will not EXPORT

Hello Everyone:

I posted a related issue I was having trying to edit my Motion project in FCP in the Cafe LA forum, I thought I would try my luck here in the Motion forum as I believe the problem is coming from Motion.

PROBLEM:
I have some animation projects I did in Motion that I cannot edit in FCP. Every time I attempt to render the files it causes FCP to crash. Furthermore, I cannot export the files as a QT file either as the export crashes at just about the same point.

QUESTION:
My animation project is about 10 minutes long with several Motion files being 3 minutes plus. Is there any way I can get these files into FCP for editing? It is an important project for me -- a 10 minute animation pilot, on which, at present I have spent more than 6 months working. So, any suggestions?

... please help.

Thanks,

Brad

It sounds as if you have some corrupted footage that's causing your problems.

When you said that you can't export as a QT, were you referring to exporting from Motion or FCP. If Motion, then at what point does it crash? Can you mark an OUT that is right before the element that is causing the crash and export? What is in the Motion project at the point it crashes?

Andy

Andy,

Thanks for your input, however, the animation project was scrapped after six months of payroll and time-wasted. The files kept developing problems in Motion and the only real option was to repeatedly restore from Autosave and redo the work; however, without knowing what caused the issues the problems could never be fixed, rather they simply kept returning. Sometimes the files worked fine in Motion and would just shut down FCP when attempting to render. I took the problem into Apple on my MacBook Pro it was loaded on several systems, eventually the technical person simply said "Boy, I don't know what is causing that." I took it to another "technical expert" and received virtually same response after looking at the problem for almost an hour.

I also called Apple technical support and spoke with another Motion "expert" who had me try a bunch of irrelevant basic stuff, which did not solve my problem, it did however plainly establish that he was not an expert. I called later and received the same step-by-step pointless exercises ... as though he was simply reading off a card with no real technical expertise.

Eventually, I spoke with someone who said he wrote code for Motion and told me that Motion is not really dependable for anything other than really simple titling and "simple" effects. He told me that doing multilayer animation projects in Motion were an "ideal" but not really something that Motion was capable in the "real world." He claimed that Motion presents all types of problems for which they are still attempting to understand. I then asked him why I was reassured continually along the way that with Apple Support and Pro Care that I could do an animation pilot of the type and size I indicated, BEFORE I started and then repeatedly DURING the project, only to be left with no solution and no service when the project kept encountering "unexpected" problems. He responded "Well, I didn't tell you that -- and I can't help what someone else at Apple told you, but, if you would have asked me I would have warned you that Motion is not made for that."

I have been left with "Boy, I don't know what is causing that." And frankly, NO ONE has any idea what causes this problem in Motion/FCP, nor how to fix it. And most of the feedback I have received has been, frankly, pointless and insulting e.g. "... reinstall FCP" (after my clearly stating the problem occurs on any given system, rendering advice like that sophomoric and frustrating). I went step-by-step though weeks of tests; unfortunately, when posting new results I would get advice repeating suggestions, which I had already CLEARLY indicated were ruled out. This has been incredibly frustrating; eventually, I quit posting because it became apparent no one had ever encountered this problem; nor were following the thread as advice was repetitive, or ignorant of the progress (or lack thereof).

I feel that Motion is simply an application in infancy of development and it should be clearly stated that it is only safe for certain types of titling and small effects (with a clearly outlined size). Ultimately, the most ridiculous aspect of this entire endeavor is the "shut down." A sudden shut down in FCP after hours of rending with no explanation, or, warning, is unacceptable; and furthermore no response from the software manufacturer (after multiple reports) is insulting.

I hope others will avoid this situation, which has cost my business a great deal of money and caused me to regret the irresponsible advice (from which I proceeded) on the part of Apple "experts" who assured me all along the way Motion had the capabilities I was using it for, right up until the time it broke down. They do not know of what they speak with reckless authority.

So, let it be said, a warning to all: Beware of Motions capabilities/limitations regarding animation/editing before beginning. And mostly beware of the extreme and inexplicable breakdown probabilities, which can cost the user dearly, because (as in my case) you may not encounter such problems until you are deep in the project with no warning along the way -- it will simply one day become UNUSABLE.

However, I thank those who attempted to address this problem in ernest, such as yourself.

Brad

Obviously you've had a really bad experience, Brad. I'm sorry you had to go through that. And though this will likely make no difference in your opinion of Motion, I just want you to know that many people, myself included, use Motion every day in professional applications as a graphic design and compositing software. It's certainly more to me than a "titling" and "simple effects" program.

One thing you mentioned is that you felt it apparent that no one had ever encountered your problem. That in itself is an indication that your problem is rare, possibly unique to the specifics of the circumstances of your project. That doesn't mean that Motion is unable to handle anything but "certain types of titling and small effects". It just means that you hit upon a previously unseen combination of factors that caused it to break on you. Not that it'll make you feel any better.

Still, I'm interested in what caused your issues. Since all I've seen is this one thread, I'm unsure if you've heard my advice or not, but I suspect corrupt media to be the cause. Mainly because you were able to recreate the problem on several machines. If the project was scrapped, I wonder, does that mean you have none of the media anymore?

Andy

Andy,

The project was scrapped in that we were unable to finish it in Motion -- the Motion project remains intact on the MacPro unrendered; I still have all the files. I work in the Burbank/Glendale area. If you are interested in looking at the problem first-hand, and are in the LA area, let me know ... we can possibly schedule a meeting where I can bring it on my MacBook Pro. I can show you the entire project -- take a look for yourself. I have consulted every professional I could think of already with no solution. All are stumped.

As far as my problem not being an overall indictment of Motion, my response is that I realize persons, (including staff here, as well as, myself) have used Motion in the past for more than just titling and simple effects; but, to use a cliche: a chain is as strong as it's weakest link, and, as I have come to find out, this link in Motion is disastrously weak. Yes, it may be rare; nevertheless, it happened ... and the consequences are devastating. So, the reality is, to use Motion for more than titling and simple effects is a considerable risk. And if others have not encountered critical problems when doing more than simple things, let it be said, rare though it may be, this problem can happen and by virtue of the possibility, it makes a person LUCKY if it does not happen to them. And an application navigating on luck is dubious, at best. True, the indicated problem may seldom occur, but, an unique occurrence makes it no less volatile; consequently it makes Motion no more dependable.

I would compare this situation to a jet that flies extraordinarily well. As long as my ride never crashes -- I will love it ... and sing it's praises. And even recommend it. But, one's perspective will change if they are on the ride that crashes inexplicably. And are you ever going to get back on that plane when no one knows why it crashed, nor, how to prevent it in the future? Because when it happens, you certainly cannot endorse the thing anymore.

The reality is, this problem in Motion may be rare, but, it is there and should NEVER happen when used properly; yet, there is no middle ground -- all the sudden six months of work ... unusable. And when seeking a resolution, or even understanding, there is no mechanism of proper support. If one never encounters this issue -- Motion is great. I did not have such problems for over a year, but, the fact that someone can go through what I went through makes this application a very big risk, which need be clearly pronounced. The jet can simply fall out of the sky.

I too would like to know what caused the issues, because that is the only way of truly fixing the problem. And I have to say, I am surprised by the apparent lack of curiosity on the part of Apple -- even when the problem was plainly vexing to several of their "experts." There was a real lack of follow-up, concern, and even assistance, and I have full coverage/support, in addition to one-to-one service, which was 100% completely useless.

Since all you have seen is the one thread I can answer whatever questions you might have, should you wish to follow up on this. In brief, after weeks of attempting to remedy an evolving problem of this Motion-based project, wherein initially I could not export certain Motion files, we seemingly fixed that, only to find that some of these same files were causing FCP to crash while attempting to edit (eventually, preventing my opening the FCP project altogether). I was finally able to restore, divide and otherwise alter the Motion files to the point where we were able to open the project back up in FCP, we were even able to reconnect the media with no apparent problem. However, when attempting to render the project it then kept crashing FCP with no explanation. Exacerbating the process the crash would occur at different points in the render making it impossible to identify any given point in the file to examine. Further frustrating the situation, the same files would then play fine in Motion, though FCP would still crash on render with the same wildly unhelpful claim of encountering an "unexpected error."

So, even as an extensive process of elimination was applied, the project files still seemed to arbitrarily crash FCP when attempting to render (even after the other reconnect media problems were solved.) And as I have indicated, this happened on several different systems (7 to date) -- having been transferred via G-Drive, firewire, and MacBook Pro. When last we accessed the project it was connected to the Motion media, but, crashed every time we attempted to render; until we simply gave up.

... and that is where this Motion project sits now -- abandoned in it's current state of an unrendered FCP timeline.

If you have any suggestions, insight, or even recommendations of any true Motion guru in the LA area I would very much like to take the project to them. I want to see someone figure this issue out.

Best,

Brad