ATI 9000 & 8500

....Reportedly the reason cards like the ATI 9000, 8500 and older models are not supported is that Motion depends on ARB_fragment_program for pixel shader effects. (The older cards don't support that .) Apparently an Nvida FX series or later is required (no support for even the Geforce4Ti)....

original posted from here:
[www.xlr8yourmac.com]

Antonio Hui

It is truly time to sort out the video card issues for we Quicksilver G4 users of Motion.

It may be that there is only one card (ATI 9800 Retail - 2/4x AGP) that will work and if you have an ADC connected LCD monitor you would need to add the $100 cost of the DVD-ADC adapter. That brings up the cost of running Motion on an older G4 to almost $450 plus the app itself.

Agreed. It fits in nicely with Apple's approach of the G5 being the world's largest dongle for the Apple Pro apps.

Here's a rub for Paul from Apple to consider:

I was going to evaluate using Motion for a basic broadcast design course for the University where I teach. Guess what? Motion won't run on any of our 20+ systems (including my personal system) because of the GFX card issue. One can't expect a school budget to keep up with this level of update. So not only are we screwed, so are the students as well as Apple, because we can't buy the software if it won't run.

We'll continue to use AE.

Just something to consider.

hd

I searched around in the morass of information that Motion needs megastuff to work - well,

I found this video card that seems to meet ALL the requirements for a G4 with AGP 2x or 4x slot. It has 256 MB DDR memory,

Also has ADC-DVI and S-Video outputs!

Could it be?

ATI RADEON 9800 PRO SPECIAL MAC EDITION

Nope - ATI RADEON 9800 PRO SPECIAL MAC EDITION is only for the G5

There is a 128 MB DDR RADEON? 9800 PRO MAC EDITION, but even ATI's web site is confusing. On the top page it says 256 MB DDR but under specifications it says 128 MB. All that aside it is DVI-VGA and S-Video which still doesn't support an ADC connection.

Yes, it's going to be painful for those with older systems to run Motion, but I can't see Apple doing it any other way when the whole app is based around the only recently supported GPU pixel shaders. If Motion was not GPU based, then it would not be a revolutionary app. Not so much because of the real time speed th GPU allows, but because it's real time, you can begin to animate using procedural animation which is the real paradigm shift that's going on here. AE could never embrace procedural animation as it does not have a real time architecture, and procedural animation absolutely needs to be in real time or it's useless. Unless you can play with the parameters, you're not going to get anywhere fast, unless you can guess really lucky!

It will be interesting to see if the next iMac will be able to run Motion nice, at least for standard def, and how an older G4 with a beefy graphics card will cope.

It also sounds like Motion will be a real memory hog as it uses the memory to cache rendering and video for better real time performance.

The next frontier we need to know about Motion is configurability and scripting, with particular note to native plugin APIs so that the great FCP plugin minds can weave their magic in a real time environment. That will allow the app to grow rapidly as AE has done.

So... Who will be the lucky person to first post on this forum that their copy has arrived??

Here's to patience in waiting....

Graeme

Graeme,

Apple knows that there are loads of us who don't have the ability to move to a G5 and we are successfully running Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro and Shake on a G4. To dump a fresh new application out there that wont work on a majority of their recent G4 systems is insane!

Any business knows that if you want to make a product sucessful, you need to
focus on your client base. There is no reason that a video card could not have been made for just such a problem resolution.

I understand that Apple wants to sell G5 systems, but as IBM can't even turn out the chips fast enough to satisfy the demand, they had better rethink their strong arm tactics.

As one poster lamented, the Apple G5 is the dongle for Motion!

I guess that what I'm getting at is that even if you could run Motion in a less than real time environment, you'd not be able to use the program as intended with the behaviours and procedural animation. Trust me, procedural animation is wonderful, I've coded enough 3d procedural animation myself to know it's wonders, but if it's not in a fully real time environment, it's the biggest pain going!!

Now if a G4 can give some decent enough real time functionality with a suitable graphics card and enough memory, then I'd hope that such a card is made available to users who need it. That would only make sense. Even a bundle option of card + Motion would be a good thing.

I don't think Motion is in any way insane if it doesn't run well or at all on a G4. It would be insane if Apple realised they could do something new, but wouldn't release it for G5 users if it didn't work for G4 users. They do a wonderful job of keeping the latest OS X running on G3 systems, but there are strong technical reasons why Motion will not be of much use on older systems, and it's needs for the latest GPUs on the graphics card.

Graeme

I saw someone sell their 9600/9800 pro mac edition on [www.ebay.com], (however, none of them ship to HK.) so that, anyone is interested. Let's take a look.

use the keyword "ATI 9600 pro mac" and "ATI 9800 pro mac" will get the list

Good Luck
Antonio Hui

"As one poster lamented, the Apple G5 is the dongle for Motion!"

Boy, I hope you guys are DEAD wrong about Motion not running on the 2002 Quicksilver. I hope you are wrong...or else I won't be installing it anytime soon after it arrives (it will stay in shrinkwrap). I finally have my Dual 1 Ghz G4 running so sweet right now...I don't need or want a G5 right now.

WHERE'S PAUL THE APPLE GUY??? We need some questions answered, PLEASE!!!

- Joe

Just so you know - the Motion Report on CreativeCow shows that Motion will not even load onto a MAC IF the video card doesn't meet Apple specs!

Paul from Apple is, I believe the marketing arm of Final Cut Pro. I wonder who is for Motion?

Although Paul checks into the forums every so often and is among the more visible from Apples Pro Apps team, they can in no way answer all of our questions. It's not their job to spend hours on the forums. In fact, demanding answers from people is usually met with silence, same as if I demanded an answer from you all.

Like most things in life it's up to each of us to find the answers on questions such as these. If the answer is Motion works on a G5 only and thats the way it is then we push to get Apple to change the minimum requirements on the Motion page and we stick with the software we have and continue to make it work for us, same as before.

Motion isn't going to make or break your career. And who is to say ATI or Nvidea don't see a market for G4 owners who are frothing at the mouth to use Motion. Or maybe the card John is buying will work just fine.

It's going to be just fine folks. It's only software.

:-)

Mike

My bad, Mike.

I should have did more research before diving in and buying. I didn't know that the $299 software would need a $2500 dongle (LOL)

You are right, sir...it will work itself out.

- Joe

Hi, Joe,

Don't beat yourself up. Mike is right (he's usually a beacon of reason), but were I in your place I'd feel exactly the same way. I don't think Apple plublicized the requirements widely enough during their pre-sales blitz, but even had they done so, we were all in a frenzy over Motion, so it's understandable.

I'm in a similar situation over a G5 and doing HD productio n - it's like being in a no-man's-land.

But as Mike says, what we have has served us well, continues to work well, and time will sort it out.

hd

As Motion mainly depends on the GPU, I think the ATI 9800 with 128mgs of Ram will run just fine on a recent G4 machine. After all Apple's mimimium specs are a 867 G4 with 512 megs of Ram. Lets wait & see how John makes out with his new graphics card. Will it run as well as a dual 2.5 G5, of course not. But it will see us through till the next generation of G5 ship with Tiger & the new picture & Video units & auto scripting features. The future looks bright lets wait a few days & see what transpires.

Dave

John The SPECIAL MAC editon of the ATI card works only on a G5. You want the MAC EDITION.

[www.ati.com]