G4 owners CAN use Motion

OK Just got back from Siggraph where I talked to Greg Niles, the Motion product designer and yes, those of you who own G4's CAN use Motion and it will work just fine. Providing you get a ATI RADEON 9800 Pro Mac Edition Card and at least 2 gigs or ram, preferably more although 1 gig is minimum.

The Motion team has been running across the country demoing Motion off a PB running an ATI mobility card and all works just fine. Your amount of RT will depend on the amount of complexity in your project. Using HD files with Motion on a G4 might prove to be tiresome but who cares if you have to render.

Unfortunately I didn't take notes during our conversation but bottom line as all of you know is Graphics Card is key and ram is 2nd and CPU third. Caching, textures, moving files around all tax the CPU. The bigger the file, the slower the response. Just like always.

It is safe to say that a Dual 1 gig G4 with a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition and maxed out ram will out perform a single processor G5 with a stock card and one gig of ram.

So there ya go.

BTW Promax has 200 boxes of Motion which includes a free one hour class at the Santa Monica Apple Store if you want Motion right now.

Expect Apple store and other retailers to deliver Motion in 2-3 weeks. (so I heard)

Mike

Mike,

All the literature I am reading on this ATI RADEON 9800 Pro Mac Edition card, especially on the ATI website...says it works in the G5 ONLY:

[www.ati.com]

Did you hear something different at SIGGRAPH? Did you get to visit the ATI booth?

Thanx for the great info.

- Joe

There is a whole lot of misinformation going on about these ATI RAdeon video cards.
I called at least two major Macintosh reseller tech support departments and asked about which ATI Radeon 9800 card will work with a G4 4xAGP slot video card. Both told me that although the Special Edition with 256 MB DDR was marked on the box with a big G5, that it will actually work at 4x with slightly reduced throughput.

The problem with the other 9800 card is that it is DVI-VGA -S-video so that anyone with an ADC connected Cinema Display would have to also purchase the Apple DVI-ADC converter at another $100


Interestingly, except on the ATI web site which says G5 all the other reseller also include text of 4x support.

[www.clubmac.com] or
[www.maczone.com]


So splain that -?

You are reading the 9800 SPECIAL MAC editon specs. I'm talking the 9800 MAC EDITION

[www.ati.com]

$321.00 in the lafcpug store....in a few minutes.

mike

I cant explain that. Maybe its true. All I know is that the ATI Radeon MAC Edtion WILL work and yes you would need a connector depending on your display. You can trust the re-sellers on this one because you can always send it back. So if the Special Edition works let us know. It would be a better value for Cinema Display users. $340 at Amazon.

mike

Michael,

Take a very good look at the differences between the ATI Radeon Pro Mac Edition(A) and the ATI Radeon Pro Mac Special Edition(B).

Lets compare card A and card B

According to the ATI web site card A has 128 MB DDR and is 2x4x AGP compatible. it also has DVI-VGAand S-Video outputs/

Card B has 256 MB DDR and although the ATI web site states G5, all the other resellers say 4x 8x so it will work in a G4 or a G5 and has ADC-DVI and S-Video outputs.

All the resellers are saying that after their investigation card B - ATI Radeon Pro Mac Special Edition will work on a G4 with a 4x AGP slot BUT at a slower data rate than the G5's 8x AGP slot.

With card A you get half the video ram and if you use an Apple ADC connected LCD monitor you have to spend $100 for the Apple DVI-ADC converter to boot.

I suppose I will find out for sure when the B card shows up here.

Well if it works it might prove to e a better value and probably better performance. You dont stand to loose anything here except a trip back to the post office. Looking forward. BTW if you want Motion now Promax has 200 copies. Otherwise its a good 2-4 week wait.

mike

Hey Guys,

If it were up to me and both these cards work, I'd go the extra few bucks for the 256 Meg VRAM Special Edition (saving $100 on the DVI to ADC adapter & doubling my VRAM).

John...I'm waitin' on ya, pal

How do we get Apple to test this sucker (ATI Radeon Pro Mac Special Edition)? How do we get them to list qualified G4's & their Cards???

Whats on the web site is qualified. Thats about it. Qualified doesnt mean a heck of a lot really unless you call Apple support.

mike

Sorry Mike...I meant specific working set-ups. The video cards listed are almost "generic". It lists the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro, but not "Mac Edition" or "Special Mac Edition". Are we supposed to take it for granted that all 9800 Pro cards work? That's a pretty vague listing of qualifications, don't you think?

The G4 & G5 Requirements should be listed separately because the same cards don't work on both systems (so says ATI). I am getting the feeling that this is a big push to sell more G5's.

I am just trying to get all the facts (as I always do) before laying down any money. You are right about Motion not "making or breaking my career", but I use my rig all the time...I cannot afford any downtime.

- Joe

Generic? There's a Big SPECIAL EDITION at top of the page and big MAC EDITION at top of that page. You are clciking on "Specifications" under Quick Links, right?

Seems easy to distinguish the two despite the similar names. Do a google search for Special Mac Edition and Mac Edition and you'll come up with two different cards.

Heres another liink at ati that tells you its 2 different cards.

"You are clciking on "Specifications" under Quick Links, right?"

No, I am here:

[www.apple.com]

The req's are right in the top-middle (generic - non-specific "? ATI Radeon 9800 Pro"

I hope you don't think I'm trying to give you a hard time, Mike I know they are 2 different cards...but it seems the only differences are the monitor ports and the added VRAM.

It's after midnight where I am now and I need to go to bed, but this is bugging me a bit. It's not clear (where I am looking) and it should be

- Joey

One other thing. The 9800 Pro IS qualified for use with Motion so no debate there. The debate is whether the Special Edition will work with a G4. If it does then it seems a better value for all. We wait for John's report or someone else who gets to it before John.

mike

Exactly.

Nitey-Nite Mike!

May you sell one to me and ship to Hong Kong ?

Many Thanks!
Antonio Hui

I dont sell them exepy through Amazon. If you want one from Promax you can call them but I'd guess the duty tax will kill you.

1-800-977-6629

Understand. Yes, most of this product are not allowed to ship outside US.

outpost.com seem to be my only chance, just like the ATI 8500 that's I ordered a year ago. anyway, thanks for your info.

Antonio Hui

Michael,

Do you think motion deserves a forum of it's own? Perhaps a wait and see?

-Alex

Opps....

looks like it does have a forum of its own. :-)

I got here from an outside link and assumed it was the café L.A. forum.

You work fast!!

-Alex

Alex Alexzander wrote:

> Michael,
>
> Do you think motion deserves a forum of it's own? Perhaps a
> wait and see?

It's a good question Alex.

Yeah, I do. VERY different app from FCP and SP3 despite the integration, and if my instincts are correct it should be a pretty big seller. Hobbyists and pros alike seem taken with it even more so than SP3 so by giving Motion its own forum we should be able to keep the Cafe as is, focused on FCP.

There is the argument that too many forums spoil a community and I'm aware of that. Its much harder for me to manage, but we shall see how this plays out.

BTW, would love to have you as a moderator. You can use your sig to point everyone to your forum.

:-)

mike

I would be very proud to help as a moderator. You know how much I love this group. Compositing is one of my favorite subjects. No sig, no bio, no link. None of that stuff interests me. I'm happy enough just to participate.

-Alex

p.s.

I love the idea of multiple forums, as long as it is one per application. When you have multiple forums for each application, that's going too far. You have always had a no-nonesense way of dealing with expansion. I think it works just perfectly. Grow as you need to grow.

Wouldn't it be great if Apple decided to expand Shake's customer base by dropping the price tag to FCP levels of $999. Take note Apple. Community sells product, and the community would love to expand, as is evident right here. You'll need another forum Michael... What am I getting you into... :-)

Alex Alexzander wrote:

> Wouldn't it be great if Apple decided to expand Shake's
> customer base by dropping the price tag to FCP levels of $999.
> Take note Apple. Community sells product, and the community
> would love to expand, as is evident right here. You'll need
> another forum Michael... What am I getting you into... :-)

Actually Graeme wants a Shake forum too but I just don't see the need as of yet becuase those that are using it are working 18 hour days in some cubicle somewhere and already know it, and those that want to use it dont really need it, and the others just cant afford it. I imagine that will change one day and when it does we will put the forum up.

BTW, thanks for being a mod here on the Motion forum. We are honored to have you as always.

Mike

I am honored. You are putting up with me. :-)

-Alex

Alex,

If you would like to help moderate a Shake forum, look at www.naprovig.org.
We at the Nashville Apple Pro Video Group are starting with it's first meeting in early September and our forums cover All of the Apple Pro Video Products.

I am currently learning Shake in hopes of supporting the Shake forum but any additional help would be appreciated.

Mind you this is just starting up but since most groups don't support Shake, we want to be the one that does.

Let me know if you are interested by emailing me at john@naprovig.org.

A Nashville Shake group. I love it! Go for it John. Those that dream big achieve big results. When you get it up let me know and i'll post it in the newsletter.

mike

Oh I'd wait until I had a firm crasp on Shake. There are guys with a lot of time in the field who are going to hit you with problems. I wouldn't begin to try to support those uesers for at least a year or so.

With Motion, we're all starting off at 1.0 so it's a different situation. I don't own Shake either, so unless Apple wants to shoot me over a free copy, I wouldn't be of any use to anyone at all.

Thanks for thinking of me though.

-Alex

Getting back on the Motion / G4 topic (sorry, guys), I just found something out today that might kill any chance I have of getting ANY Motion seats in my studio.

The Art Director and the Creative Services Director has brought up the strong possibility of all creative departments going totally PC early next year (14 - G4's & G5's... 3 with full Final Cut Pro HD / AJA I/O workstations)...all just so the I.S. department can get one support contract (PC) to fix all the machines in the building (240 peeps - all on PC) and not have to hire a "specialty Mac guy" as they call it (I think I'm gonna hurl )

Good-bye Motion at work

Good-bye FCP at work

Good-bye DVD Studio Pro at work

What's this world coming to...where you are FORCED to use a PC?!?!?!

Well, I have my hopes up that my fellow Mac peeps will rise up and crush this dictatorship in the name of Mac Users EVERYWHERE!!!

Get Well STEVE!!!

- Joe

grafixjoe wrote:

> Well, I have my hopes up that my fellow Mac peeps will rise up
> and crush this dictatorship in the name of Mac Users
> EVERYWHERE!!!

Somone somewhere, and probably a google search will turn it up, did a study on the costs of IT in a PC shop vs the costs of IT in a Mac shop counting the fact that macs are more expensive to purchase. The costs I recall were significant higher for the PC shop. This may not be true with Windows XP as its it much more stable, but it is something to consider. Also something to consider is the workers themselves. What are they most comfortable with? If its PCs then you're dead.



Mike

Don't be up sad Joe,

maybe...

Motion for fun

FCP for fun

DVD Studio Pro for fun

However, that fun maybe the new career to you.

Think be independent, create you own business.

Yes, I'm running on this direction. Although, not sure the future, but just try my best.

Good Luck
Antonio Hui