STP - Multitrack Session Nightmares

Throwing out a wide net with this one, any info will be greatly appreciated:

Editing a DV short (1 reel) in FCP 5 and exporting video for sound editing, design & music in STP 1.0.3. Using G5 dual 2.3 machine w. Datavideo DV converter for video/stereo audio monitoring. All recording, not much to date, has been via the built-in audio line in. 2nd internal ATA drive, not system volume, contains the project & all created sounds. I am also using an external Lacie FW 400 drive with my sound effects libraries.

Having a very very difficult time working with more than a few tracks in a multitrack project, cutting in synch with an imported QT from FCP. I'm working in short sequence sections, 3 - 5 min, and theoretically cutting & mixing down pre-dub type units to stereo AIFFs and then importing them back into FCP. (Needless to say, the lack of a STP-FCP workflow and the lack of any multitrack export options, i.e. OMF, really blows.)

Problem 1 - When working with a project with a video track STP often locks up on playback and will not play the session. This happens with the external video monitoring both on and off. The problem can be temporarily solved by switching to the Finder, I assume dumping a video cache, and then switching back to STP which re-freshes the video. The frequency of the lockups is high, hapening once every few minutes. This problem is consistent and does not seem to correlate with a maximum number of working tracks.

Problem 2 - Realtime playback of multitrack projects stutter like crazy. Not just dropping frames, but also clicking & popping in the output as well. This problem manifests after a significant amount of work has been done and usually after several RT effects have been added to tracks. Once the stuttering starts in a project I cannot seem to get it to go away, having tried deleting all Rt effects, copying the project and breaking it up into smaller groups of tracks, re-exporting the video track from FCP, etc... However, I cannot identify a consistent cause in my workflow. Sometimes the stutter begins happens after I have been working with 18 tracks and lots of RT effects & automation for several hours or days. Sometimes it starts early on into working with the material. Again, once the stutters start I can't seem to get the project playing properly again.

Problem 3 - Crashes. Oh god. Crashing several times a day, 4 - 6. Sometimes crashes come on saves, sometimes opening a project, sometimes on playback, sometimes in the WF editor, sometimes auditioning RT effects in multitrack. Usually it is just a program lockup or unexpected quit, but there have been several total system crashes that bring up our favorite grey screen, forcing a manual re-boot.

Problem 4 - RT effects not coming across in "Export Mix." I exported a mix with heavy RT track effects for a monster type dialogue section. The effects were applied to the clips in the project, but cut out when the clip ended, instead of continuing over the whole track. Most noticable with the reverb. The section plays back fine in STP, but the "Export Mix" AIFF file does not seem to render out properly. I encountered this for the first time late last night so I have not had a chance to do any investigation.

I have re-built permissions several times and trashed the preference file several times. I have also re-built overall system preference several times. Any advice, workarounds or general wisdom is greatly appreciated as, unfortunately I'm locked into STP for this project.

Having similar problems myself with similar type project-- please help!
Have you had any luck finding a solution?

Have repaired permisions - deleted preferences etc.

On a G5 dual 2gh - 2.5 ram - 2nd internal hard drive for media - Soundtrack Pro 1.03 - OSX 10.4.5 - Quicktime 7.0.3 - m-audio firewire solo

The number of tracks in my test using 25 at the moment plays fine.

The problem with stuttering for me revolves around clips that have been worked on in the waveform editor - removing clicks, hum, noise reduction. The clip that I am working on will play (after saving using reference) in the mix window perfectly. But previous clips that have been worked on will stutter.

And, Bounce realtime to action is not highlighted - so no need or can't pursue that course -- thought maybe would work like audio mixdown for FCP.

Have had wicked crashes with too many tabs open.

Questions?
Do I need more ram?
Do I need a raid drive set up?
Do I need a third empty drive for scratch (as works to make photoshop with huge files behave)?
Are there some setup or software tricks?

Has anyone had this work for them out there?

Called apple support - but they want $200-799 to answer question - eventhough I just got program. They consider this an advanced problem for Pro Support and only will deal with getting program "working".

Please help - if anyone has a working situation for this - it would a great use for Soundtrack Pro.

The only work around I can think of is to work in FCP and send the files to wave editor from there. Then do final mix in Soundtrack Pro or not if for a project of this length this version is DOA at the moment.

Conrads have you had any luck?

Cy

I have 4.5GB RAM and 2.7GHz processor on my G5, Tiger OS and have had similar problems so I don't think it is a RAM issue. I was fortunate that these things happened to me at the very end of a mix so even though it could not play back without stuttering, it could export the mix okay. On one occassion I was able to solve the problem by going back to the mixer and unchecking some of the effects I had added to busses. Although I wasn't able to conclude without doubt, I strongly syuspect that certain effects cannot be used after other effects on a trackor bus without strangling the project. I got around some of my problems by exporting same track or bus to an aiff file, openiung it in the waveform editor and applying the effect there to the whole file, then re-importing that file into the multitrackproject and laying it down in sync. It worked but this could only be done with simple tracks like VO which I could still blade and adjust left or rigth or remove bits as the project progressed. I was able to pitch up a voice for example tgis way and still use the space designer reverb effect on it afterwards, a thing that had strangled the project earlier when I had tried both effects in that order as realtime effects on the bus.

I know that isn't much help. I did learn to save the projects very regularly and before applying any major effects or changes, save as a new name so at least I could revert to reasonably recent working project whenever crisis arose.

There are lots of improvements needed in STP and autosave is one of them.

Thanks Éamon,

Very helpful -- was wondering much about the ram issue.

Maybe though - one needs a raid drive setup? This is probably best for another thread.

And fascinating about your insight on the order of effects - this would seem to be a problem - because different orders give different sounds... On Apple's board, it was suggested that EQ's be applied to tracks - and Reverb, Sound Designer to busses - seems to help...

Meanwhile, have done a few things that also seem to help--

First broke up the long clips -- used media manager, outputed a new fcp project with clips and handles. Then sent from new "managed" project to Soundtrack Pro. This seemed to have gotten rid of the crashes.

Then talked with Apple again - this time about re-installing program. They were very helpful here. Got to be complicated because we tracked down that Sound Designer effect was corrupted. I was sent a file to replace the Sound Designer IR settings. This helped. But this is only a stopgap measure (I was told I wasn't going to like the real solution). The real solution seems to be -- erase the boot hard drive and re-install everything from scratch. Ouch... Have yet to do it - but suspect this could be a "fix" to not ony my problems, but many peoples. Hope some brilliant FCS expert here might have a simpler solution!

That said - have found a temporary work around - put Sound Designer on a bus - write down or save under user settings - then when there is a problem - remove all Sound Designer effects from the Bus (or Busses) - and reapply them. And then, the project will work as normal.

Noticed - that my problems still occur mostly after openning a clip in a multitrack project to be worked on in the Waveform Editor.

Also a couple of side notes -

With trepidation - updated mid project to 10.4.6 from 10.4.5 - thoughts were it might help the crashes - maybe it has... (still on quicktime 7.03 - moving to 7.04 changed appearance of the video - so went back)

I am using M-audio's firewire solo - updated the drivers - better - but sometimes the hardware for no apparent reason flips back to 44.1 instead of 48 - easy to deal with - go to audio midi and reset audio settings.