Sound Track Pro tricks of the trade -- how to score a movie without a budget :-)

For the first time I can score my own movies; I can't believe it. All the elements for a score are right there in the browser. Only thing one needs is patience and the knowledge of a few simple tricks like changing the volume within a sound take, doing a nice segue between sound tracks, etc. I don't know how to do the simple things I used to do on my editing table and the magnasync moviola recorder in 35mm editing. The potential of STP is so much greater, so please share some of the tricks of the trade with me.

Glad to hear that it worked out for you. The independent short film & feature film maker never had it so good.

STP is a great tool for the purpose it was designed for & your application is exactly what it was designed to do.
Professional sound designers (guys who make their living building tracks & mixing for other folks) will by & large not be impressed, as now the filmmaker can do the job himself.

The mix may not be quite as good a sound mix as good as what a pro sound designer can potentially do with all the gear in his acoustically designed sound studio can achieve. I say potentially as often the restraints of budget & delivery time result in soundtracks that are over the top & do a disservice to the dramatic needs of the production.

Used tastefully STP should be a great asset to low budget filmmakers. One of the problems this program suffers from is that STP was perceived as an upgrade on the original SoundTrack program, which was a program for non musicians to create music ( or scoring) for their films.

Many people who bought the original SoundTrack program were not even interested in film & video, but bought the program to do dance music. So there is much confusion from this source as well as the folks who do a Capture Now in FCP of the entire tape & then work with subclips & are surprised when they encounter problems in STP. However when the program is used for the purpose it was designed for it is a wonderful tool. I'm looking forward to the next version.

All the best.
Dave

Thank you for the comments, Dave. I'm getting much better using STP. I found out a lot of the tricks of working with it. There are a few minor problems still, but once I read the manual I'll figure out the rest of it.

I find STP to be the best tool in the FCP Studio collection of aps. I think that STP is the only tool I've worked with that allows me to be a complete filmmaker. I can score every frame of my movie for the first time, just as I can edit every frame of my movie on my Cinemonta flatbed editing table. I hope after I learn FCP5, I'll be able to edit every frame of my movie in FCP also.

I set up a Film School Program here in Vancouver back in 1987. Was head of the program from 1987-1990. I suggested to the owners that they call it The Vancouver Film School. They dropped the word "the" but the rest of my program remained in tact for the 3 yrs. that I was in charge. I taught Post-production & on occasion Cinematography.

The first 2 editing machines we acquired were a Cinemonta & a Showchron flatbed. A Post House in the building heard that we had a Cinemonta & made the owners of the school a offer they couldn't refuse, so it was replaced by a Steenbeck. Later I bought the Showchron from the school & we standardized on Steenbecks.

I started using FCP 6yrs ago & have had every version to the current. I bought the 4.5 version known as The Production Bundle when it was introduced 2 yrs. ago although I already had 4.5 which was a free upgrade from version 4, to start learning Motion. I'm glad I did because when 5 Studio was introduced Soundtrack Pro was the main app in the package that I was interested in.

I've spent the bulk of my free time over the past year on Soundtrack Pro. While Motion & LiveType are nice design tools & are useful for making trailers & spiffy DVD menus SoundTrack is an indispensable tool for low budget drama & documentary filmmakers. There's definitely room for improvement but it's certainly useable as it is. I'm eagerly waiting to see what they do for version 2.

All the best.
Dave

You founded Vancouver Film School Dave? Very cool!!

Yeah it was a bit of a challenge Mike. The process felt very similar to making a film production.

All the best.
Dave

That's great! So you know Soundtrack Pro better than most people ... I have to ask you: how do you save a STP Project with all its elements AFTER you edit a sound bite under another tab? Let's say, I click and open a sound bite of 4 seconds long, let's say a car screeching to a stop, and then do a fade out in the editor window -- now after I flatten and go back to my multiple track view, the sound bite carries the fade out ok, BUT when I try to save the project, the program won't allow me to save UNTIL I drop the sound bite that I modified in the editor window.

Generally speaking I live Soundtrack Pro ... and there is one other idea I have to which I'd like a response -- what's your recommendation: the musical elements in STP are kind of old. I recently did a trailer and posted it at the FCP phorum on this website ... I got ridiculed a bit because the music was 70s funk. Now, I happen to like the sound, but I'm a bit behind the trends because after my kids took over the house, they wouldn't let me listen to my music -- in fact to any music :-) So, that's my excuse for falling behind... So I was wondering if I should create new sounds that I can sample from other more current music and use them as elements in STP. Is there a way that I can conveniently and legally do this? I just want short short bits -- like STP provides in their library of sounds.

> how do you save a STP Project with all its elements AFTER you edit a sound bite under another tab? Let's say, I click and open a sound bite of 4 seconds long, let's say a car screeching to a stop, and then do a fade out in the editor window -- now after I flatten and go back to my multiple track view, the sound bite carries the fade out ok, BUT when I try to save the project, the program won't allow me to save UNTIL I drop the sound bite that I modified in the editor window.

OK I assume that you realize that you do a Save Collected & check off Video & Audio. This puts all the audio sources of your project the QT movie & your project file in a folder or bin.

Ex. on an external hard drive you save your collected files as industry standard 20 min. reels.

Days of Heaven - Reel 1
Days of Heaven - Reel 2
Days of Heaven - Reel 3
Days of Heaven - Reel 4
Days of Heaven - Reel 5
Days of Heaven - Reel 6

This procedure is similar to the way we used to store our reels of the tracks we built on multi-gang synchronizers on rewind benches. The components along with the cue sheets were stored in white boxes or large film cans & achieved on shelves for future use in case changes needed to be made.

Malick's "Days of Heaven " was given a preview screening at the Stanley Theatre in Vancouver several months prior to its release. It was a gorgeous 70mm print. Possibly a 1st or 2nd answer print off the struck from the original negative. The sound was equally impressive. It was either 6 track mag stripe on the print or an interlocked screening of the master mag. However there was a problem, the crystal clarity of sound made it abundantly clear when there was a missing element on the sound effects tracks.

The problem was corrected for the 35mm release. It would appear that the tracks were rebuilt prior to the release. My impression is that releasing it in 35mm rather than 70mm also improved the dramatic impact of the production. The beauty of Almendros's cinematography in the larger format shifted the emphasis away from from the central characters & the tragedy that was unfolding. Instead of being intimately connected to the story, the audience was transfixed with the majestic landscape & the awesome period farm harvesting machinery.

All this was muted somewhat when the film was reduced to 35mm which helped to place the emphasis back where it belonged on character development & story. It's the classic dilemma of the film editor & director, more is not always better, things have to be kept in the proper balance.

Getting back to your problem, if you have done a Saved Collected & Soundtrack Pro refuses to make a copy of the sound effect to which you have added a fade in & fade out & then proceeded to flatten, it may be that you have stumbled on a bug in the program (we all know there is room for improvement).

More than likely, however, Soundtrack Pro may not be able to locate where you have saved the new sound that you have created. You did do a save as on that sound, gave it a new name, then imported it into the project & substituted for the existing file in the multitrack timeline and then did a save before attempting a Save collected did you not?

I haven't seen your trailer but I'll see if I can locate it. Music in film, of course is not just music. It is an integral element in the production. It has to fit the mood theme & character of the production. If the theme of the film is about a musician or a singer such as "Walk the Line" or "Ray" then a fairly extensive use of music is appropriate.

On occasion music which is actually recognizable as music can be added to the sound track of a scene to underscore a particular moment in a scene or a whole montage sequence where the work of the director & the actor did not quite achieve the emotional weight that the scene was meant to convey.

A good example of this would be the barn building sequence in Peter Weir's film "Witness". The 1st time I saw the film I thought the scene was tremendous. On 2nd viewing of the film I realized that Peter Weir & the editor Thom Noble must have realized that the scene which was to play a pivotal role in the production was simply not working as intended. The music written to underscore the scene was ideally suited to the needs of the scene. It supplied an emotional harmony that worked with the actors to establish for the audience the positive aspects of the Amish community. Even within this scene the counterbalance elements were present.

I mention this film because it contains very clear examples of the two main ways that music is used in film productions. First there is the theme which is musical in nature which is used in various points in the film to suggest how members of the community assist each other. The other use of music consist of music stings which are of a sustained note or drone nature which underscore the erotic emotional tension between the Amish girl & the detective that cannot be satisfied without the destruction of one or the other.

This 2nd type of music which is used as the main source of music in the film seems particularly appropriate for film use. Although it emanates from musical instruments it seem to have more in common with sound effects.

Come to think of it this film is actually quite interesting in it's use of music. There is a scene towards the end of the film when some violent members of the world outside invade the peaceful tranquility of the community. The music used in this sequence comes much closer to what might be considered to be music. However it is an extremely strident & discordant piece a perfect counterpoint to the harmony of the barn raising piece.

There is also a sequence in the barn where the detective is working on repairing his car in the barn & the girl enters and a piece of pop music starts playing on the radio in the car. Sam Cook singing "What a Wonderful Life It Would Be" This scene has the same erotic tension as the other scenes that use the musical stings because it is not used to underscore the scene but is an integral part of the scene itself.

The film isn't a great favorite of mine but I think it is a good illustration of the various ways music can be used to assist a production. If the use of music as an element in a production is not right it is like miscasting an actor for a part or an actor trying to upstage the other actor in a scene. It throws the production into the realm of disbelief. Like everything else in editing, its a matter of fine tuning finding the right balance & timing so that the emotional experience of the audience is in accord with what the scriptwriter had in mind in the first place. With a bit of luck it may even surpass this.

All the best

Dave
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This is what I miss about film school -- great teachers. I love hearing analysis like this. Thanks, Dave, and you answered my technical question too. I'm going to go through the procedure you indicated tomorrow. I'm making a DVD of my feature film tonight -- it's 3 AM now :-) I fell asleep on the couch -- was watching Soccer World Cup.

I just printed your reply to my question. I must remember these points about editing music. I liked both movies you used as examples. I love Andre Jarre's music and Nestore Almendros photography.

Great analysis Dave

You were right, Dave, one must save a project BEFORE making changes in editor view. Then I was able to save my finished project with all the collected elements.

Good to here that it worked for you.

Dave

Hi Vic,

I just came across the thread were you posted a link to your trailer. I thought you did a great job of the trailer. I probably wouldn't buy the DVD as I'm the kind of guy who goes to see over a hundred film a year on the big screen. You did with the trailer what I wish the majors would do with their productions. You introduced the audience to the characters & gave use a teaser as to what the nature of the conflict might be.

You didn't tell the story & ruin the experience for the audience. A pitch session for a producer is the place to tell the story in pithy couple sentences. For the trailer you don't want to spell out the plot. It's distressing now a days going to see films because you already know the whole plot line. In the theatre the previous week when you watched the trailer & were told every twist & turn of the plot line. The purpose of the trailer is to suggest that there is an unspecified emotional conflict that it might be worth while coming back to see. I think you did that quite well. Sure there are things that can be done technically to improve it. But these are secondary to the aspects that you have got right (interesting characters & a tantalizing glimpse at the nature of the conflict without giving away the plot.

Well done! If yo have time to give it a bit of a polish before sending it out to festivals go ahead & do so. I think the festivals will see the trailer & regard it as an intriguing work from ann independent.

As for marketing it on DVD you may have to take a different approach DVD aren't by & large interested in exploring the nature of the human condition, there the people who stay at home & watch TV. They are mostly interested in escapist entertainment. So were talking of the comic book audience rather than folks who appreciate good literature. You're going to have to promote your production the the right audience for the film rather than a general audience which might be more interested in action & adventure.


All the best. I think you are on the right track. As always, do the film you want to make not somethinng where you are secondguessing what the audience might want to see.

Dave

Thank you, Dave. Finally a filmmaker according to my heart. I was actually helped by the technical expertise of the FCP forum. I allowed myself to be badgered because industrial editors who are in heavy competition for jobs tend to be the sharpest when it comes to market trends. Like you I've gone through a lot of changes in taste and procedures in editing and filmmaking. But it amuses me to see that the film schools today are still teaching filmmaking and videography like nothing has happened in the world of feature films. Some of the new editors in the forum were trying to tell me that I was not staying on reactions and always staying with the actor speaking. They didn't realize that one shoots the whole scene from all angles with the entire line being done by each actor on camera, and that I was using clips from the full takes in my trailer :-)

I truly believe FCP is going to revolutionize filmmaking -- beyond what Apple perceives, because they're not editors, they're primarily engineers. (I've only used FCP for a few months.) The danger will be in maintaining the essence of the language of film, which doesn't change -- only techonology changes and improves the finished product as to delivery and exhibition.

I learn a great deal on this forum. I think Mike is very progressive and intuitive in the way he manages the forum.

Thank you again for seeing where I was headed with the trailer. I need to learn Motion (which I haven't even touched,) so I can do a couple of great opening and closing titles. Also, about the DVD marketing trends. I'll keep that in mind.

By the way, I had some interest in my movie from distributors in the last few days. My re-editing of the movie helped a lot. But especially Soundtrack Pro -- it really made my movie look and sound better than it is :-) I also did some fancy editing, which I think did the trick. I'm showing the movie to three distributors over the next few weeks. I'm anxious to move on to my new feature which is in production now. I enjoy finishing a movie while shooting another because it keeps me tuned to the two aspects of filmmaking -- production and editorial. I feel that it's important to keep in mind as one shoots what the editorial requires.

Congratulations! When you asked us to be perfectly blunt about the clip you posted, it was to give you real world feedback. I hope you know that it was also to help you improve your skills.

If you are shooting the movie yourself and doing the whole thing, you have a chance to edit the film during the shoot, making the next steps easier, including proper sound capture.

I appreciate it, John. I'm being a lot more careful with image and sound capture, especially now since I've learned enough of FCP to realize that it's a new ball game for us independent filmmakers. For the first time we can compete with the majors and the multi million dollar movies, because there is no limit to our imagination and expression. Before budget limitations made it nearly impossible to bridge the gap in the way our films looked.

The biggest obstacles we still have as independent filmmakers, especially my style of filmmaking, is the willingness of experienced actors to participate. And despite what some editors in the forum think, a no budget filmmaker can't expect SAG actors to be in one's movie. There are ultra low budget deals with SAG but they require signing (for me) a scary contract.

So I must still use sub par talent and cut around them as best as I can. But I really don't see this as a major obstacle, because it's also an opportunity for me to get really creative with the use of inexperienced actors. Of course, this aspect of my methodology is the hardest to explain to a forum of industrial editors who make their living with run of the mill movies.

So I'm prepared to take more ribbing :-) For me it's all worth it because it's a great learning process. I feel I'm back in school. LOL