16:9 anamorphic output problem

So, I shot 16:9 anamorphic, and captured 16:9 anamorphic. When I double click on the clips in my sequence, they show up in the expected 16:9 aspect ratio in my canvas and viewer, and everything looks as it should on my NTSC monitor, as well.

But I want to export 16:9 anamorphic and I'm having problems. I select the sequence, then Export, then Quicktime Movie with Current Settings, and the result is a 4:3 squeezed verion of my edit. Same thing happens when I select DV***anamorphic from the options beneath "Current Settings". So, I'm baffled. What have I missed? Thanks in advance for your help.

i'm not an expert so this might be pointless advice, but i had simliar problems with stuff that should have been imported as anamorphic and wasn't. We would play with the current settings and discovered that you had to change the setting, then close down final cut then start it back up again otherwise it would keep using the same settings as before and we'd get the same problems.

Don't know if that'll help but i'm sure the smart guys will come up with a more intelligent answer to your question soon. They always do with my problems :-)

That didn't do it, but thanks for your suggestion.

I am baffled. There's got to be a fix for this.

Has anyone else ever had this problem at this stage? When I was a newbie, I would sometimes screw up my settings pre-capture and then have to go back and recapture footage. But here, I've clearly captured everything correctly as it displays in anamorphic 16:9 UNTIL I go to export, whether it's a quicktime movie or MPEG4, the result is the same. What have I missed?!?! Some little check box somewhere?

> I would sometimes screw up my settings pre-capture and then have to go back
> and recapture footage.

Let's clear up one thing first: You know 16:9 footage, viewed on non-16:9-capable devices, is supposed to be stretched vertically and fill the whole NTSC 4:3 frame, right? And that if an image is letterboxed with black bars on a non-16:9 device, it's no longer in 16:9 mode?

Also, the above step is not necessary. If you capture 16:9 footage without turning on the 16:9 option, all you have to do is turn it on in the Browser.

All of my devices are capable of displaying native 16:9 footage appropriately. My Sony monitor has that button and FCP5 with my cinema display has no problem showing me my footage exactly as it is. All that I want to do is export a sequence so that it plays as a self-contained movie (in Quicktime and then in MPEG4 and MPEG2) exactly the way that it does when I press the space bar at the beginning of my edited sequence.

Maybe the last time I screwed up was in an earlier version of FCP that didn't enable Browser-based modifications post-capture. I don't know. Anyway, "anamorphic" is checked for all of my current clips.

Appendix C of the Final Cut Pro 5 User Manual discusses issues that arise when working with anamorphic footage. On the very last page of this Appendix, "Exporting Anamorphic Video to a Quicktime Movie." Sounds great.

But then we get the subtitle, in bold, " To export a 4:3 Sequence to a Quicktime movie with a widescreen Aspect Ratio:", followed by a bunch of steps.

Whoa there, Apple. I shot with native 16:9 chips, I captured using your DV NTSC Anamorphic sequence setup, everything looks good until I go to output to Quicktime. What gives? What happened to addressing the goals of the title?

Final Cut Pro sucks when it comes to exporting 16:9 from a 16:9 timeline. I've had this problem with all my 16:9 stuff, which caused me to start using a 4:3 timeline for all my 16:9 footage, all you should have to do is drop all your 16:9 footage into the 4:3 timeline and then "render the green". After that you can just ouput the footage normally and it will come out letterboxed.

If you don't want letterboxed then you can also take your original 16:9 timeline that you have now and do a manual resize when you ouput using quicktime conversion (choose custom size in the options menu). You'd think the custom size would be 1600 x 900 or 800 x 450 (i.e. something in the ratio of 16:9), but, no, I've found that it only looks right if you choose 1,200 x 720, which isn't the right ratio, but like I said it looks right. Doing this supposedly takes away some of the quality, but I haven't seen too much difference. There's really no other way to do it that I've found. Unless maybe you use some other program such as Cinema Tools, etc.

This drove me mad about 4 or 5 months ago when I had a similar problem. Final Cut sucks at 16:9 footage.

Good luck,
Ty

I'd been going through this ordeal for over three weeks solid -- 12-16 hour days with the computer rendering and making QT movies all the time. I had a 44 minute movie shot on HDV (Sony HRV Z1U camera). The footage looked great and I was able to capture it onto my G5 FCP5 system. I was doing this for the first time. I edited the movie very well, but then I couldn't output it at all. Finally, I found in the FCP manuals that one cannot output a movie in HD. PERIOD. So I had to do something. I coverted the movie to QT self-contained and then to DV Stream. I selected letterbox in the preferences and it came out onto iDVD beautifully. The quality of the SDV is almost as good as the original HDV. Since I never saw the movie on an HD TV monitor, I don't know how much I may have lost. But it looks great. I can't believe how well it looks. I know for a fact that my Canon Optura could never have produced the same look as on my finished DVD.

Thanks for the responses. It's good to know that I'm not completely alone in this struggle. That said, WTF? This is just nuts.

Right now I'm in the middle of my 8th render today. I shoot with an XL1s (which of course does the electronic anamorphic thing) and a DSR570, which has native widescreen (16:9) chips. Yes, it's NTSC DV Anamorphic footage with 48KHz audio. And yes, it captured perfectly. It is BIZARRE that outputting it is so "hard."

Right now I'm exporting the sequence to a custom-size (720x405). The sequence setting is 16:9 and the anamorphic button is, of course, checked. I want my output to look like what you see at the movie trailers section of Apple's web site, no black bars, just a fully-filled 16:9 frame. Am I on crack thinking that I can accomplish this in a straightforward manner using Apple's own editor?

Need to go eat something before my eyes fall out. Once we figure this out, I pledge to write a simple how-to, post it on my web site as a downloadable pdf.

> But then we get the subtitle, in bold, " To export a 4:3 Sequence to a
> Quicktime movie with a widescreen Aspect Ratio:", followed by a bunch of
> steps.

That's probably different from what you're trying to achieve. This tells you how to make a NON-16:9 movie clip that plays with correct proportions on non-16:9 enabled devices. Once you go through this step (importing 16:9 footage into a non-16:9 timeline), your end movie file is no longer in 16:9 mode.

Do NOT go through these steps if you want a 16:9 movie file. Just export using your 16:9 sequence settings.

Dude, I don't think 720 x 405 will work, it will still look a little squeezed. If it works for you like it did for me, you will have to make it 1,200 x 720 or 600 x 360 which is a ratio of 5:3 not 16:9. I don't know why you need to do that, but it has always worked with my 16:9 footage when I couldn't use letterbox. Sounds crazy but I'm just throwing it out there, if your output still looks squeezed try a ratio of 5:3

Derek,

I have shot 16:9, captured into a 16:9 sequence, edited, and now am happy with my finished product. When I play through my sequence it looks perfect on my computer and on my Sony NTSC monitor (with the 16:9 button activated).

When I go to export using current settings, you'd think I would get exactly what I've got, but I don't. I get a squeezed 4:3 output. So then I don't select Current Settings, I go with the DV Anamorphic option... and I get the same problem.

I've run FCP Rescue, I've repaired permissions, I've restarted my machine, all with no positive outcome. I've nested the 16:9 sequence, created a 4:3 sequence, dropped the nest into the 4:3 using overwrite, and this gives me those lovely black bars above and below my footage. But I shot 16:9 in the first place, so this is just insulting me.

Now I'm following Ken Stone's lesson on this on his web site. I really hope it works. Meanwhile, I'm just wondering if somebody out there may be willing to share their secret for a step-by-step workflow solution to outputting 16:9 DV footage in FCP5.0.3. Thanks in advance to the person out there who's got this figured out.

> When I go to export using current settings, you'd think I would get exactly
> what I've got, but I don't. I get a squeezed 4:3 output.

Do you mean you get a movie file with the black letterbox bars?

No. That would be interesting. I'm seeing 4:3 output, squeezed so that my interviewees are as thin as they wish they were. No letterboxing. Just squeezing.

Aargh.

Like Ty says what you have to do is resize to a 16:9 ratio when exporting anamorphic footage from FCP for web/computer use. If your not going to the web you either need to letterbox it or leave it anamorphic (will look squeezed in quicktime but will look fine in FCP). The problem is quicktime player doesn't play anamorphic quicktimes in the proper aspect ratio by default - or standard video that uses non-square pixels for that matter. You could go into the movie properties in quicktime player and scale the video track manualy to display the proper ratio.

Nick Meyers had a very involved, yet working, method for doing the movie file without the letterbox bars but with the proper proportions. Check earlier threads or ask him directly.

Okay. Here it is, a sense of workflow for getting your 16:9 footage onto the web.

1. If you shoot on a DV camera with native 16:9 chips in 16:9 mode (Sony DSR570, Ikegami DV7AW, Panasonic SDX900, Canon XL2) or a camera with electronic anamorphic 16:9 capabilities (Canon XL1s or Panasonic DVX100) and you want to output your footage to the internet preserving your 16:9 look (no letterboxing), the following approach apparently works.

2. In your Audio/Video Settings, select DV NTSC 48 kHz Anamorphic for your Sequence Preset and your Capture Preset. Capture your footage and edit your brains out.

3. When you export the footage, you must customize the size of your movie frame so that the height equals (0.5625 x width). This yields the 16:9 ratio that you want for your movie output (e.g., 720x405, 400x225, 320x180, etc.). Leave the settings for your sequence just as they are and try to output using any of the supplied preconfigurations (such as current settings, or DV Anamorphic, or Quicktime movie etc.), and you'll end up with squeezed footage in a 4:3 frame. This can still be used for outputting to tape, as I understand it, but will get you nowhere in producing footage for web distribution.

Apparently, Apple hasn't figured out any better way of enabling us to automatically output our 16:9 sequences than giving us the freedom to set our own pixel dimensions. I had assumed that I was screwing up a setting somewhere, as I imagine many do before they find their way out of this snafu.

That's all there is. Sort of anticlimactic, but at least I know I wasn't making some boneheaded mistake with an unchecked box in a submenu.

I hope that this helps somebody, somehow, someday.

I've been working on widescreen projects (7 of them, shot 16:9) for the last few months and although I don't need to create stand alone Quicktime movies as such, I DO need to create widescreen Mpeg2 movies for DVD authoring.

As Mpeg2 was one of your desired results in your original post, I'm not sure whether you know that you can export a reference movie out of Final Cut 5 (okay it looks squeezed when played in Quicktime) but when the reference file is then crunched in Compressor using the Mpeg2 widescreen setting, the result is a widescreen Mpeg2 - no letterboxing - which is presumably one of the results you want.

Compressor also has Mpeg4 settings - although I have had no need as yet for these.

<<3. When you export the footage, you must customize the size of your movie frame so that the height equals (0.5625 x width). This yields the 16:9 ratio that you want for your movie output (e.g., 720x405, 400x225, 320x180, etc.). Leave the settings for your sequence just as they are and try to output using any of the supplied preconfigurations (such as current settings, or DV Anamorphic, or Quicktime movie etc.), and you'll end up with squeezed footage in a 4:3 frame. This can still be used for outputting to tape, as I understand it, but will get you nowhere in producing footage for web distribution.

Apparently, Apple hasn't figured out any better way of enabling us to automatically output our 16:9 sequences than giving us the freedom to set our own pixel dimensions. I had assumed that I was screwing up a setting somewhere, as I imagine many do before they find their way out of this snafu.>>


Try using Compressor, which at least in version 2 I know, will allow you to maintain aspect in one of the tabs of the Inspector.



- Justin Barham -

And as a follow-up, I just exported a short test widescreen reference movie out of Final Cut 5, opened it in Quicktime (yes it looked squeezed) then exported out of Quicktime (importantly, Quicktime Pro) as an Mpeg2 and then a little later, Mpeg4 (fiddled a little with custom settings) and got a stand alone widescreen version in both formats that play in Quicktime as widescreen, ie - Quicktime opens up a widescreen viewer.

Remember too, when exporting the reference movie out of Final Cut - you don't want the movie to be "self-contained" - uncheck this box.

I seem to be relentlessly following up my own posts - which is wasting precious space, I know, but to answer perhaps the original question you posed, it would appear you freaked out when you first saw something exported to Quicktime when (in fact) there is one more step to the process. Your freak-out was still at the intermediary stage.

*Use Compressor or * one more step in Quicktime.

We like follow-ups. Better too many than too few.



- Justin Barham -

Flyingleatherneck,

I am doing some experiments and would appreciate it if you would clarify what you mean by "...MPEG4 (fiddled a little with custom settings) and got a stand alone widescreen version..."

Did you customize the frame size to a 16:9 ratio? You must have unless you applied the MPEG4 conversion to the widescreen MPEG2 output. Thanks for sharing. Hopefully we'll be able to produce a list of steps here that people will really benefit from.

-Adam

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't 16x9 "Anamorphic" video technically a 4x3 video signal that is meant to be displayed squished into an aspect of 16x9 so that it then displays correctly? If this is true then what is being exported out of FCP is actually that looks skinny is actually a 16x9 Anarmophic video and not a true 16x9, in other words FCP is doing what its supposed to? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Adam - to answer your question - yes.

I've been out shooting all day and I feel totally screwed right now (so I'll be quick)but basically what I did (as an experiment because I have no need for Mpeg4) I exported a reference movie out of Final Cut - opened it in Quicktime Pro, the reference movie looks squished - then chose to Export as an Mpeg4.

There are several different options there at the Mpeg4 stage, one of them frees up the greyed out video options/custom frame size area.

It's always best to export just a short sequence out of Final Cut, you only need a few seconds, in order to experiment with what works for you. My settings are a little different as I'm working in PAL, 25fps, etc. Remember, it's IMPORTANT to just export a reference movie out of Final Cut, not a self-contained Quicktime movie. Reference movies save on time time time. (Where it says export out of Final Cut, yes I know it says Quicktime which is fine, but just make sure the "make self-contained" box is UNCHECKED.

Fundamentally though - as I've said before - I use Compressor (used to use Cleaner, but now Compressor).

Final Cut - Reference Movie - into Compressor - widescreen Pal settings - comes out as an Mpeg2. (Video and audio split because audio needs to be in ac3 format for DVD - but that's another story and I'm tired. (Compressor does that too, though.)

> Remember, it's IMPORTANT to just export a reference movie out of Final
> Cut, not a self-contained Quicktime movie. Reference movies save on
> time time time.

I disagree with you there, leatherneck. In the short run reference movies save on export time, but in the long run they are far, far less flexible and cost much more time. You can't move them and expect them to play on another station without the source media; playback is much less stable than a self-contained movie file; and the performance of further processes on the movie file (eg. Compressor, DVD Studio Pro, iDVD) has been known to fail more often with reference files.

Use reference files if you don't have the storage space. But if you do, then self-contained movie files are the way to go to ensure maximum stability and mobility. I just did a concert piece and broke the movie-file export into 20 different self-contained movie files. Then I assembled them and made one long 90-minute movie file. Why the interim step? Because once that step is done, and the image and sound verified, you never have to revisit the previous steps like rendering. The G4 I was working on needed overhaul, and the movie files mean I don't have to go back to the original project file. I can even dump the original captured media wholesale, or move the movie files to a better station for outputting. And of course, at the output stage, I can now use a project file that references only 20 clips (if using the smaller versions) or one clip (if using the 90-minute full movie file). Finally, you can burn reference movie files to data DVDs for archival or travelling purposes, take them to another station for DVD burning while you continue working on the cut at the main station, match them to independent audio mixes with no fear of accidentally moving clips, and access time is greatly accelerated.

derekmok, it can be argued that there are time advantages to both, but in my instance, although we have other editors working on other projects in other locations - I have the main suite, I am the main editor and I have no need to transport my footage to any other station. I have big projects, big time-constraints and no time to do self-contained Quicktimes, also no need to do them to potentially save any time down the track.

For what I do, reference movies are the way to go for me. Of course, everyone has different needs and different solutions to suit themselves - as it should be. And everyone should be encouraged to find the way that works best for them.

I have had zero stability problems with my reference movies in Compressor.

I am running a dual processor G5 with terabytes of space.