Preserving Timecode

I used an Avid System to produce an mpeg. I want to first, preserve the timecode with an mpeg and then, when importing to final cut. Is it possible? Please advise.

FCP is not designed to edit MPEGs. YOu need to convert it to a codec it is designed for. Look at the easy setups to see what codecs are available.

I am not sure I understand... I am not editing anything. Just pulling it over to FinalCut...... If I make a mpeg out of a master video, lets say 5min long, and I take a clip out it starting at 2min-15sec, and ending at 4.5 min.. Would the the exact timecode be preserved. (2.15.00 - 4.50.00)

Then I'm not sure I understand. Why are you importing into Final Cut Pro if you aren't editing? FCP is an editing application...just like an Avid. Why would you import into an Avid if you weren't editing?

I believe that converting to mpeg causes a loss of timecode information. Why are you converting to this format?

Several clients are using MACs, with Final Cut... They are pulling files from a large video storage that was created in Avid. Their immediate need is to have the timecode of the file being imported along with the mpgeg first. Then any editing thats needed will take place only after they have the right file with the right timecode.

Ah...don't know the answer, I was just trying to gleen more info.

If they are captured Avid files, why are they mpegs? Are they low res versions for viewing? My producer would get mpegs of vvideo shoots with burned in code for him to reference when he wrote the script. The mpegs themselves didn't have the timecode, but the timecode was instead on the picture.

Yes, you're right. Part of this challenge is that the original files are Avid and they are converted to, or exported as mpeg 21.. or something thats Hi.. nonetheless proxties are made - lo res mpeg2/ thumbnails for web viewing and then a request is made for the Hi Res.

Now it makes a little more sense to reference the timecode on the mpeg.. how are they placing that on the mpeg; in/out, lenght, bin number ref.????

Well, this is something they rigged up in the field, feeding from a Varicam to a small camera that recorded mpeg video on a card. Here is the process:

[homepage.mac.com]

Now what you are saying is that you have the master "stock footage" stored on an Avid, and you send out low res copies for people to use in their cut, and when they want to buy it you send the high res versions? The only way I have ever done this is by receiving copies of the footage on VHS with window burn timecode, or as quicktime movies (compressed DV/NTSC) with window burn code. This way when you want to order it, you write down the numbers...and it protects you from the footage being used without being paid for.

What you should do is reference the source tapes, and capture those as low res, using the SUPER output connection so that the timecode can be displayed. This might mean a lot of work.

Or wait until someone who knows about mpegs and timecode retention comes along and trumps everything I say. For you sake, I do hope it references the source TC. Run a few tests yourself and see...

Can't add much to Shane's, except that to make it useful in FCP you should export the clip using the DV-NTSC codec for easy import, then go in and modify the clip's TC by hand to match what it was on the Avid.

Or, use Automatic Duck which as I recall remembers clip metadata so you cna accurately recaptur ein FCP after bringing it over.

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Conversion to any compressed video file will not retain the original Timecode.

You could however save the clips with BITC (Burnt In TimeCode as Shane said) on the clip so they at least have a visual Reference of the original if that is what you really need.

The main thing for FCP is that the Online clip and Web clip are the same length down to the individual frame and are at the same frame rate. But most importantly is that they have exactly the same filename.

The timecode doesn't really make much of a difference unless you sending out original source footage or are making perfect Timecode copies of tapes and sending these out to the editors to capture from.

I would NOT recommend using MPEG as you will cause all kinds of problems!

Use either Quicktime Sorenson 3 (a highly compressed but widely compatible CODEC format)

or

If you are creating offline files for FCP Editors then use a compressed Quicktime format that can be edited with in FCP ie: Offline RT

320x240 Square Pixels
Field Dominance None
25fps PAL or 29.97fps NTSC
Photo - JPEG compressor @ 25% to 35% Quality

Audio will have to be rendered if it's compressed anyway so use:
IMA 4:1 at 32 KHz
2 Discrete Channels (so the audio channels 1 & 2 can mapped correctly upon Online)

This way they need not perform conversion of the files to get the best performance in FCP.

Make sure you have a database entry with the clip name the clip duration, format (PAL, NTSC, Frame Rate, 4:3, 16:9, Letterbox, Progressive/Interlaced, etc)

------------------------

Question:

Are you are trying to perform a service like The BBC Motion gallery?

[www.bbcmotiongallery.com]

Make sure your database & file naming is VERY accurate or you will run into problems when people request the clips.

------------------------

I recently did a a job using almost entirely footage from the Gallery


Example of the Workflow from BBC Web to FCP Online:

? I downloaded the Web clips I needed as 400x300 Quicktime

? Used Quicktime (or Compressor to batch) convert them to 25fps 720x576 DV PAL files for offline editing (as then less rendering would be required in the offline)

? Imported the DV versions into FCP

? Edited the sequence(s)

? Then used the Media Manager to collate the files I used to a separate folder on my HDD

Each file name corresponded to its Full Res Clip in the Library so:

? Copied their filenames from finder like so:

Column view of collated files
- Select all (Apple+a)
- Copy (Apple+c)
- Paste (Apple+v) into Text Edit in Plain Text mode

I now had a list of filenames to email to the BBC Motion Library

? Ordered the Full Res Clips on Digibeta

? Digitised the clips from Digibeta as 8-bit uncompressed - logging each clip as it's correct Library Filename (as per the offline files) a simple cut and paste job for filename by copying the filename from my list that I sent to the BBC!

? Quitted FCP

? Moved the Web offline clips to a separate drive for backup (in case of problems) and took the drive offline. (you could easily burn to DVD-ROM instead and delete the original web clips)

? Opened the FCP project and relinked the Clips to the new Digibeta 8-bit UC files ignoring the warning about length of clip, in/out timecode, etc...

? Changed the Sequence setting to 8-bit Uncompressed - did a bit of tweaking*

Voilá - now I had a timeline with all Full Online Res clips!

~~~~~~~~
*Problems:
~~~~~~~~

If the digitised file had extra handle at the front of the footage (or I'd captured a pre-roll) then I had to use the Slip tool to move the footage into the correct place. Not a big problem and easy to do.

For Widesceen Anamorphic & 4:3 mixed formats I had to correct each aspect ratio that did not sit correctly in the timeline ie: 4:3 on a 16:9 FHA timeline had to be scaled up 133%.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Overall it is a really useful way to get an Offline edit done when you don't want to pay for the footage before you cut it.

Longwinded in parts - but cheap, effective and not difficult at all.



Regards


Ben



Post Edited (01-24-06 14:24)



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Sorry to disagree about the QT files not retaining the original timecode. The orignal captured clip will. If you take a clip that you captured, give it to someone else and they import it into FCP, the orignal source code will be there.

But I suspected that any time you convert or compress it that the TC info is lost. Others here confirm that.