dv cam setting on pd150

hey all,

thanks for all the help in the past.

i have just recorded a session on my pd150 using a regular mini dv tape however the camera was set on dvcam instead of dv sp. have i made a major faux pas?

the playback is very digitally scrambled.

any fixes?

or will i have to reshoot?

ps. my pd150 was just repaired with a new mech deck and the setting for dvcam is the default. i'm wondering if perhaps it really isn't fixed and that setting is not the cause of my problems.

thank you!



Thanks,
Bam
www.planetbubble.com
www.bam13films.com
www.bam13ink.com

Are you playing it back via the camera or a deck?
Check playback settings in the menus.

hey sanjay,

i'm playing it back via the camera (pd150) that it was shot on.
rec mode was set to dv cam.
audio mode was 48k.

i'm playing it back with the same settings.
any ideas?



Thanks,
Bam
www.planetbubble.com
www.bam13films.com
www.bam13ink.com

Hey Bam

The PD150 can switch playback from miniDV to miniDVCAM automatically and you should not need to change any settings to do so. It is only the record options that need to be set and this should not make any difference as long as the player can play back both formats.


Word of warning:

Although you CAN record DVCAM to miniDV tape you should never use normal miniDV tapes EVEN on DV cameras if you value your capture! - thats a no no - the only tapes that have gone tits up on me are the lower quality ones even the Sony DV premium tapes have exhibited this problem in the past.

I now use only SONY PDVM MiniDVCAM tapes or PDV DVCAM large tapes to record and for Edit masters.

To solve your issue you can try getting the heads cleaned in your PD150 with a cleaning tape or by a professional with cleaning fluid see if that works.

Also you could try playing back on various DVCAM decks to see if you can reclaim your footage.

It does sound to me like your tape stock is duff or the recording is duff. You may have to reshoot.


Regards

Ben





For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

> the playback is very digitally scrambled.

While I agree with Ben that you should use DVCam stock instead of Mini-DV where possible, this should not be happening. Even the lesser tape stocks should not yield such a bad result. Did you check whether you'd shot on LP mode? If not, then you're stuck with trying to find a camera that would playback this footage properly.

It's entirely possible that the digital noise is part of the image, in which case you're basically screwed -- reshoot filter. If you only have pixellations on your image, you could attempt to repair it using effects, but if the damage is bad enough, you're looking at a long, hard, painful process that might not yield anything.

(Maybe someone can confirm) but the PD150 doesn't have LP mode Record or Playback... So it must be a corrupt data/tape.


Ben





For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

FWIW - I just shot a short piece using a PD-150 and after I finished I noticed it was set to DVCAM. Capturing directly from the same camera presented me no problems. DVCAM is still DV except that the tape moves faster over the heads to lessen the possiibility of dropouts, etc. The frames are still DV, however.

And -NO , the 150 has no LP modes (why would it?) The only tape format to have LP mode was VHS, was it not?

Used the 150 for years (now on 170).

I use Panansonic EJ tapes for most projects (boy I'm I . . . my clients are cheap). RARELY do I have a problem (rare drop out). I master to Sony PDV tapes though. Yes DVCAM tapes are better for many reasons (beter QC, sturdier shell) though.

Recording in DVCAM shouldn't cause a problem. PD-150 should play it back without a hitch. Heck I've even played PAL recordings with my NTSC 150/170.

It's well worth getting a Sony DSR-11 deck though and save the heads on your camera.

If you're playing back for the camera and your seeing "scrambled" video you may have a major problem. Even a mistracking issue with the tape path doesn't show if the tape is played on the camera that recorded it. Given that, you may have an issue with either there record head or playback head. Double check by recording and playing back in DV mode.

Check your "bad" recording tape on either a DSR-11 or another PD 150/170. If it looks ok then it's a playback issue. If it looks bad it could be a record issue.

To double check a possible record issue CAREFULLY use a DVCAM cleaning tape for about 10 seconds and then make another recording. It's possible you just have a head clog. Some head clogs . . . and certainly dirt on the tape path, may not be "cleanable" with a cleaning tape though.

A GOOD service shop will ALWAYS clean the heads and path after a repair.



Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]

thanks for all the feedback guys! i think i know what's wrong. before recording i presumed the camera was set up for minidv so i blacked the tape with timecode from beginning to end. obviously, i did this in 'dvcam' mode unknowingly.

would pre-striping a tape in 'dvcam' mode cause this digital dropout and artifacting?

i've just spent $500 having a new mech deck put in the camera. so i think the striping might be the problem.

i've never worked in 'dvcam' mode before. should i pre-stripe a tape or not?



Thanks,
Bam
www.planetbubble.com
www.bam13films.com
www.bam13ink.com

Bam

There is no need to black the tape before you record just leave a few seconds after each shot so you can pick up the timecode to avoid TC breaks.

In fact unless you are goin to do an insert edit to tape from your Edit suite then you don't even need to black the whole tape only enough for the start of the playout - an assemble edit will continue the timecode where it ends should the sequence require it.

Also never use the first 30 seconds of tape for anything you definately need (I actually leave at least 1 min before shooting) blank it or put bars (and tone if you have a sound recordist with mixer) for this duration. Most tape manufacturers will not guarantee the quality of the first minute.

Also make sure you get at least 3 to 5 seconds of pre-roll for DV work - a lot of people recently have been posting problems with capture because they have not allowed for enough pre/post-roll for shots.

If you have just had a new mech put in then I suggest you take it back and get them to double check it. Sounds like it might be the problem if it isn't duff tape stock.


John

LP DV mode is pretty prevalent on most DV & MiniDV player/recorder/cameras even some Pro models from JVC and Panasonic have SP, LP & DVCAM modes.

Although I don't think any Sony Pro models support it.


Ben





For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Just to be clear, you are recording an entirely new signal. It's NOT like doing an insert over a "basic."

Switching tape speed (DV-DVCAM) can cause playback problems.
You can run into problems though if the camera sees a minDV speed signal and jumps to DVCAM speed signal (or visa versa). This could cause the signal to look "jumbled" since it's playing back the shot at the wrong speed. In other words, you're starting playback at one speed and the playback mechanism locks and then suddenly the signal on tape needs to be played back at the other speed.

Don't stripe DV or DVCAM tapes.
In theory, striping decreases the chance of time code breaks. In theory it can "knock off" some bad particles before actually recording, decreasing the chance of drop outs. IMHO NEITHER of these are good reasons to pre stripe a tape when using DV or DVCAM. This itself could be a whole 'nother thread. Why add extra head ware? Why risk the problem you now have? Why risk UNSEEN time code breaks that can screw up capture? With error correction drop outs are much more rare than in the analog tape days.

In the grand scheme of things, if you leave proper head and tails on each shot (I like 10 seconds) even a break in time code can be worked around in post. I'd rather do that then deal with the potential problems of striping tapes.

If you have a long recorded segment cue it up to 10 seconds or so into the scene. Pop the tape out. Pop it back in. Play and it should play at the correct speed for that scene. Every time the camera crosses from a DV to DVCAM recording (and visa versa) it will become "confused" about the speed and may mislock.



Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]

Oh dear. I've opened up a can of worms.

I realize that everyone including me has an opinion on whether to stripe or not to stripe. (in the words of shakespeare)

But my specific question is this:
did the fact that i striped the tape in dvcam mode and then recorded in dvcam mode cause the digital dropouts?

or is it more likely that the supposedly replaced mech deck and serviced camera needs additional attention?



Thanks,
Bam
www.planetbubble.com
www.bam13films.com
www.bam13ink.com

It may well have if you recorded both DV then DVCAM or visa versa

To check - test the tape by starting it on a portion thats definately DV or DVCAM

If the problem is still there then test the tape on another mech.

I think its the latter and your tape is screwed or your heads are dirty/fecked as I've got several tapes from sources where there is SP, LP and DVCAM on a single tape (don't aks why - I didn't shoot it!) and the playback from one to the other is not a problem.

That does not mean it isn't the DV/DVCAM issue but do the checks to make sure.


Ben





For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

bam Ross wrote:

> But my specific question is this:
> did the fact that i striped the tape in dvcam mode and then
> recorded in dvcam mode cause the digital dropouts?

Are you talking about digital dropouts or "jumbled" video?

If the tape were both striped and recorded in DVCAM mode, there's no speed change so no jumbled video.

Dropouts can be possible for a whole host of reasons from dirty tape path, metal particle problems, problems with record and/or playback head.

You might carefully describe your problem. You said

"playback is very digitally scrambled."

Which does not sound like a digital dropout.


>
> or is it more likely that the supposedly replaced mech deck and
> serviced camera needs additional attention?
>



Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]

The striping in DVCAM would have made no difference whatsoever. I agree with the others - its probably mech, or dirty heads, or screwed tape.

thanks All you guys an girls for your help, I'll take it back to the shop that "repaired" it.



Thanks,
Bam
www.planetbubble.com
www.bam13films.com
www.bam13ink.com