.wmv files

On my latest project, my client wants to include a video that is only available in the Windows Media .wmv format. I have a Mac with FCP 4.5 and DVDSP 3. Aside from the quality issue, can this be done? I also have Cleaner 6 for Mac.

Flip4Mac [www.flip4mac.com]

Hi Robert,
It's not clear to me whether you want to import or export to WMV but here's the Flip4Mac options.

WMV Player Pro allow you to import WMV in Quicktime and edit and convert to MOV (Quicktime files) you can also import and edit WMV in FCP. It's $49.

You can also get Studio (allows to to export to WMV) $99 or Studio Pro $179 (includes 2 pass encoding and WMV HD (high Def) export. Both also include the Player Pro.

Studio and Studio Pro allow you to create WMV files in QuicktimePro, Final Cut Pro, Final Cut Express, iMovie, Cleaner 6.0.x and Squeeze 4.1.

HTH

Craig Seeman
Third Planet Video
Flip4Mac Consultant

Hey Craig, Nick etc.,

I've just started using Flip4Mac to experiment with WMV files -- I'm prepping media for my own website -- but my first test has yielded shaky results. Quality is horrible (I tried 90 Quality, 240x160 frame size, or 1/3 of the dimensions of the original clip), and the file still seems big (25.8MB) for internet purposes. What are the best settings to use for a good quality/size balance? Should I choose a lower Quality setting but increase the frame size? Is Constant Bit Rate better? And what should the maximum bit rate be set to?

Purchase a cheap PC and download Windows Media Converter @ [www.microsoft.com] or purchase the Sorenson suite located at [www.sorensonstore.com] Either will do, but the Sorenson suite will guide you through the process of encoding your video.

You really need to post your settings because there's no reason to get an unusually large file.

What an how long is your source duration?
What is your encoding type, 1 pass CBR, 2 pass, CBR, 1 pass VBR, 2 pass VBR?
What did you set your data rate to?
What is your frame rate?

What you want as a results depends on your target. mms streaming server or http progressive download? Are you trageting people with broadbanc, viewing on desktor for small in office corporate presentation, projected on to an HDTV monitor?

Craig Seeman
Third Planet Video
Flip4Mac
[www.lafcpug.org]



Post Edited (07-11-05 06:15)

Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]

I'm using Flip4Mac WMV Studio. The original media file, a QuickTime movie exported from Final Cut Pro, is 00:07:29:00 at DV - NTSC codec. Coding was at One Pass VBR (only One Pass VBR and One Pass CBR are available here -- does that seem right?), Quality 90, 185 kbits/second, keyframe every 5.0 seconds. Input frame frame was set to Progressive, and I constrained the output frame to 240x160, at 29.97fps, Progressive. Audio was One Pass CBR, 48kbps, 44.1kHz, mono (I've read that mono is better for the bps).

And to be honest, I have no idea what my target specs are -- completely green when it comes to the web. I have a web designer who is taking care of server space, the actual design etc. for me -- I'm just doing tests to see what kind of media I should deliver to her, to get familiar with the different encoding methods. Since this is a website showcasing editing works primarily, I suspect allt of my visitors will have broadband. I'd probably want a streaming download, and the content is intended just to be watched on a computer at less than full size.

I've tried exporting a QuickTime movie using Sorenson 3. Results looked good, but the file is nearly 200MB. Then again, I didn't play with the frame size yet. Also, is Sorenson 3 supposed to not have customizable settings like data rate?

Derek -

IMHO - 2 general principals:

nearly 8 min for a web video is an eternity. Break it into 1 or 2 min chunks.

Bump your frame rate down to 15 fps.

Ian

WMV Studio does "Quality" based VBR encoding. WMV Studio Pro does bit rate (2 pass VBR) based encoding.

Input should be Interlace Lower Field First (DV source).
Frame size should likely be 240x180.
Bit rate is "ghosted" not selectable/not active for 1 Pass VBR encoding.
Your quality setting seem too high.
Your other seetings seem ok with above exceptions noted.

Since 1 pass VBR is Quality based, you don't have exact control over bit rate so you may have to do some test encodes to get near a target.

Try a Quality setting of 65 and examine the encode for both quality and file size. Encoding for web is the art of compromise so you'll have to juggle settings.

If content is just "talking heads" some people cut frame rate to 15fps. That will cut the file size (NOT in half though) but I don't like the way that looks.
If content has lots of camera movement and action that you might lower the key frame rate. It'll look beter but the file size will grow with increased key frames.

A good data rate for broadband might be between 300kbps and 700kbps. Lower numbers help slower DSL lines but higher numbers look better and faster DSL and Cable Modem have no problem at those speeds.

"Streaming download" is a bit of a misnomer. Must have dedicated and expensive streaming server for WMV streaming. I think you mean "progressive download" on a "conventional" http server in which file plays soon after selected.

With Quicktime, you've got Sorenson (standard) and SorensonPro codec and only some applications like Cleaner and Squeeze (not QuicktimePro) allow for 2 pass VBR encoding with Sorenson Pro. Now there's H.264 too which looks great but users must have QT7 to play (something PC users don't have yet - just a preview version, and many Mac users don't have yet either).

Craig Seeman
Third Planet Video
Flip4Mac Consultant

Aha! Thanks for the tip, Ian -- my mindset is still stuck in film/tape/DVD modes.
The length issue is probably the key. Half the size, double the quality.

Is it me, or do editor's reels seem much trickier? DPs can just show off as many (or as few) great-looking shots as possible; actors can include short scenes, but editors have to show a substantial length of a scene before you get a sense of the editing.

FYI,

Bumping frame rate to 15fps only cuts file size 20-30% give or take (really depends on content). While you have fewer frames you're giving the encoder more work in the "change per frame" area so it doesn't cut file size as much as one would think.

Personally I wouldn't cut frame rate if you're showing off aesthetic work. It just doesn't look good to me, especially if you have action sequences, camera movement, FX, transitions.

If you're doing talking head interviews, there's not much action so I find cutting frame ok if you really need the 20-30% file size savings.

Yea, 7:29 is a bit on the longish side. Maybe break into two 3-4 minute options depending on subject. I find targeted reels work better.

Just MHO.



Post Edited (07-11-05 08:16)

Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]

Just out of curiosity, why 240x180? My original frame size was 720x480, so mathematically speaking each dimension divided by 3 should yield 240x160. Wouldn't converting to 240x180 be distorting the shape of my frames?

So if I wish to control the bit rate, eg. 500kbps, I'll need to select the CBR option?

My material will be heavily action-based -- two dialogue scenes, but a lot of montage-type stuff, so I'll probably stick with 29.97fps. Still, I'll try on 15fps just to see what it looks like.

I'll probably do what a DP friend of mine did -- rather than the editing reel (better for VHS, OK for DVD, not really meant for the web), use excerpts from films/programs I've cut, keeping them two, two-and-a-half minutes.

takes into account the pixel aspect difference from DV to computer.

if you want footage from after effects (especially noticeable in perfect circle or square graphic objects) to look right in an FCP DV environment you have to make your AE sequence 720x540. if not, things will appear streteched in FCP

Look at Flip4Mac presets. You'll find 240x180 an actual standard frame size coming from 720x480. BTW you'd find the same preset for Quicktime frame sizes for standard video aspect. Don't forget Video pixels are not the same as Computer/Print pixels. You're coming from video and displaying on computer screen. 720x480 will look stretched on computer. 640x480 will look normal on computer coming from 720x480 video. Might be easier to think of the computer screen math from 640x480 (320x240, 240x180, etc).

CBR, by its nature, gives very tight bit rate control but generally won't look as good, CBR is good for streaming in which throughput for many users accessing a file at once, would need to be controled.

VBR, the encoder will increase the bit rate for "more complex" scenes and decreases it for "less complex" scenes. With 1 pass VBR "Quality" is targeted. With 2 Pass VBR you can target an average bit rate. You'll generally get much nicer results from VBR. If you're using the WMV Studio (non pro) you should do some test VBR encodes at different quality settings to get close to the desired bit rate.

Again test with a quality of something like 65 at your desired frame size then you can determine whether you need to increase or decrease the Q setting if you need to change file size and quality. With 1 Pass VBR, Quality, Frame rate, Frame Size, Key Frame Rate all have impact on quality, file size, data rate so you have to make both technical and aesthetic judgement where to compromise.

Craig Seeman
Third Planet Video
Flip4Mac Consultant