Workflow with FCPRO on a self funded doc

Dear friends,

I've been working as a DP for many years and have limited experience in the post world. I'm working on a self funded documentary film and am trying to figure out a suitable workflow given my circumstances.

footage has been recorded on Panasonic Varicam and HVX-200.

I have a Macbook pro 2.16GHZ w/ 2GB ram and FCPRO 5.1.1
I'm anticipating buying a 500GB G-raid drive soon.

I do not have a DVCPRO deck. An editor friend had suggested that I buy a minidv deck with time code and, in big batches, dub my DVCPRO tapes to minidv with timecode with a rented HD deck. Then I can edit to my hearts content with the DV footage. When the project is done, I will rent the DVCPRO deck and switch out the DV footage for HD.

He also said that, since DV is higher resolution than DVD (mpeg2) I would be able to burn trailers to DVD no problem.

With this system I can also easily work on multiple projects and wipe my drive as necessary to load different projects. I can always reinstate other projects by re-capturing with the DV tapes. And my HD tapes sit on the shelf safe and sound.

regarding the P2, I can make a timeline in FCPRO and play out to the rented DVCPRO HD deck to create masters. Then make minidv copies for editing.

SO... I need the cheapest minidv deck that will handle timecode?
I will use my 500Gig g-raid drive for footage.

How does this workflow sound ?

sincerely yours,

John Tipton

A big problem will be that your imports from the HVX won't be DV quality, and you cannot import it at DV quality. You'd have to downnconvert. Then there is the mess of recapturing later at higher resolution and hoping it is frame accurate.

No...Do what I am doing. I am working with DVCPRO HD at full resolution. It doesn't take up that much space...26GB/hour. And Firewire 800 drives like the G-Raid are great for this. I have three that stores 72 hours of footage. 720p24.

Rent the DVCPRO HD deck and capture the taped footage, and it will intercut well with the HVX footage. Just make sure the framerates match.

Read my blog for my experiences working with this format: lfhd.blogspot.com (It is normally www.lfhd.net, but I just changed blogging software and it isn't forwarding correctly right now).

Forget DVCam ... It's a waste of money and a lot of additional time. Your approach is workable, in fact a lot of TV shows still dub to DV for "offline" editing, but at this point it's the "old school" way of doing this and there are better workflows using compressed HD.

Either rent a DVCProHD deck, or take your tapes to a facility such as TDI or Digital Film Tree, who are Final Cut-friendly, and have them create DVCProHD Quicktimes for you. Import the Quicktimes and Edit on your laptop at the native frame rate of your HD source material.

Notice: No digitizing, no pulldown removal and no potential EDL problems when finishing ... This is the way to go if you have the money.

Depending on your config DVCProHD uses less bandwith than SD Video and you will absolutely love the quality of the compressed HD that you will be editing and, you can use an Apple Cinema Display attached to your laptop's DVI port in lieu of a broadcast monitor.

You can use compressor to downrez and encode your output for DVD Studio Pro, and you will get much better DVD quality than using DV as your source.

Any deliverables you need can be made by supplying your output on a firewire drive to your lab or dub house.

I was under the impression that with the macbook pro having only a firewire 400 port, I would have problems editing DVCPRO HD on firewire 400drives.

If this is not the case, Could just as well make the quicktime files myself by renting a deck - I can get one for $300/ weekend. I can't imagine it would be cheaper to send the tapes out.. ?

And editing in DVCPRO HD wouldn't slow my macbook down too much?

If I use this approach I would need at least 2 500GB drives ?

john

I was under the impression that the MacBook Pro has a FW800 port ... At least the 17" ones do. You can also get a card (sata would be my choice) for your express card slot and get something like a g-sata. You'll have all the horsepower you'll need.

Experiment with the Equipment you have ... I'm editing DVCProHD (720p) materials (mostly VFX Shots) on a Mac Book and having great success with a 320Gb G-raid.

DVCPRO HD at 720p24 works fine via firewire 400. 720p60 should as well. It is the 1080 codecs that will cause it to choke.

So yes, work at full res. Get G-Raids.


And Doug, only the 17" macBook Pro has the FW800 ports.

[Forget DVCam ... It's a waste of money and a lot of additional time. Your approach is workable, in fact a lot of TV shows still dub to DV for "offline" editing, but at this point it's the "old school" way of doing this and there are better workflows using compressed HD. ]

Only on the newest and fastest machines, Doug. DVCAM is the better choice of the DV25 codecs, in my opinion. I don't mind eating up a third of the tape to decrease potential dropouts. I like locked audio. I like a consistent lubricant. Perfect offline format, and I online for some clients who want it that way. We have even taken DVCAM onlines to Beta for deliverables!

Almost all TV stations switched form Beta to DVCAM years ago. Still has plenty value.

Yes, there's a dubbing hit, but it'll run on *anything.*

As for uprez/conform/online-- what EDL?? There are plenty of online houses you cna take your project to (or XML file) and you are in business.

All depends on how much you want to invest. Dubs today or deck rental and disks tomorrow.

One of the cheapest DVCAM decks is the Sony DSR-11, a workhorse. I use a DSR-40. It's been through one head replacement. Still chugs along and I don't need a raid whirirng away under the desk. FW 400 is quite adequate; 800 even better.

But if you have the hardware... sure, go native.

- Loren
Today's FCP 5 keytip:
Preview effects sections with Option-P or Option-Backslash!

The FCP 5 KeyGuide?: a professional placemat.
Now available at KeyGuide Central:
www.neotrondesign.com

Thanks so much for all the replies! I"m still unsure at the moment.

Loren, I looked at the Sony decks you mentioned. I don't see any time code in or out on either of them. What is the time code workflow?


Also, If I go native, and I've got 40 hours of footage. I just need to buy redundant drives such as two 1 TB g-raid drives and back them up each day? AND be Extremely critical regarding what I digitize?


best to all!!

juan

Thanks Shane, I found your blog and it printed to PDF at about 50 pages! Looking forward to reading it. I loved the popcicle stick drive supports!!

So you have three decks. What do you back up to?

john

Three decks? No....three G-RAIDS. Those store all my media that I edit. For P2 backup I currently have them on hard drives, but I will be making secondary backups on DVDs.

I wouldn't mind owning a deck, but cannot justify the $25k just yet...

Loren:

I was talking about being a waste of money & time relative to editing using compressed HD ... It's a much better workflow, IMO.

DVCam is good for a lot of stuff, especially broadcast related offlines, but for HD Editing I don't think it's the way to go. Especially on Features.

Doug:
I think you're right, but I aso think DVCAM will be around for a few more years.

I guess it depends upon the budget and hardware. I edit both doc and feature and a lot of those indies come in on DV25. A couple were SHOT that way... :-( Some clients come in with HD features dubbed down to DVCAM so they can edit 23.98 on their older home machines, or mine.

Juan:
Timecode on DSR-11? Hm. I can't remember if it has an RS-422 cable socket. My DSR-40 does, and I use it-- my timecode does not come in through FireWire, but through a repurposed Avid serial cable gong into a neat Griffin modem port adapter, because I don't like stupid looking plastic adapter boxes hanging around. I'm using FCP's licensed Pipeline deck drivers, they are crisp, and I like the idea of leaving the DV pipe just for video/audio. But what do I know... it works a peach for me.

- Loren
Today's FCP 4 / 5 keytip:
Do a virtual Audio Mixdown to lighten playback load with Command-Option-R!

The FCP KeyGuide?: your power placemat.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Thanks again for the informative posts.
I think I'm going to buy a firewire 800 express 34 card for my macbook pro:
[www.nitroav.com]
and a g-raid 1 TB FW800 drive.
The SATA option looked interesting, but without the option of Daisy chanining them, I figured FW800 would be more flexible. They are, however the same price, as far as I can tell. And i could add anothet 1TB of space as needed.

I'm going to work native DVCPRO HD for my reel. And I"m still trying to figure out workflow for my longer form projects. I"m still feeling like I 'll be too constricted if I go native HD. Ugh. Being the photographer, I REALLY like the idea of seeing everything in hi-res.

juan

Hey Guys and Gals!

I've projected the potential number of hours of raw footage I may have for my doc, and it seems that I was grossly underestimating. I could have as much as 100 hours of footage. That being said, I just can't aford the amount of hard disc space to accommodate all the footage at DVCPRO HD format.

So I"m going dvcam onto DV tapes from my DVCPRO HD camera masters I hope.
I wanted to ask you all, I"m hoping to use firewire out of a Panasonic AJ-HD1200A DVCPRO HD deck to firewire in on a Sony dv deck. But will it be frame accurate and time code perfect with dvcam format onto dv tapes?
And which one? I"ll also need to use this deck to connect to my macbook pro w/ fcpro 5.1.1 to digitize everything via firewire. Sony DSR-11 (no rs422), DSR-40 Same as dsr-11 but with rs422) or one of the new HVR M15? Of course, I"m looking to get a used deck, if possible, to save some money.

AND if I"m using firewire workflow, rs-422 is not useful for me, right?

happy weekend !!

juan - john

Wait, what? What?

Almost all TV stations switched from Beta to DVCAM? Somehow I missed that. All my deliverables are still required in BetacamSP.

travis ballstadt
www.thrillcateditorial.com

G5DP2.5ghz, 4.5gbRAM, 2TB external SATA, Panasonic AJ-D455, G4PB1ghz, 15", 1gbRAM

Hi All,
I'm thinking of getting a MacBook Pro (had a G5 and ran FCP on it no problem) - but worry that on the new set up I will have only one Firewire port. How do I run a Hard Disk and capture from a camera at the same time? Help appreciated. Old Pal

[www.macmall.com]

Juan - many thanks. Part of the time I will be using a Sony PD170 which I think has a Firewire 400 output. Is that compatible with Firewire 800? Old Pal

As far as I know, firewire 800 is backward compatible. just get the right cables to adapt 800 to 400 and you are good to go. Once one item on the chain is 400, everything is 400, however.

What you should do is connect your camera to the 400 port on your laptop. And then buy a g-raid hard drive with firewire 400/ 800 and usb 2.0. Get the nitroAV express 34 card and run the drive with firewire 800. More than enough speed to edit DV. This way your camera and external drive are on different busses. Read the posts on this forum regarding g-raid drives vs lacie, etc.

Again, I'm no expert, but this is what I have gleaned by reading back posts...

do the same yourself.

cheers

juan.