23.98 to 29.97

One more issue.

I'm working on a feature in FCP 5 and am trying to take it from a 23.98 frame rate and bring it to 29.97 with TC burnins as well as feet and frames. What is the easiest way to do this, and best?

I have been told to do it through after effects, but there has got to be a way in FCP. I have tried just about everything, and have read through many of the posts from people who are having similar issues.

Any help would be tremendous.

Thanks

1] Create a 29.97 sequence
2] Copy and Paste the clips from the 23.98 sequence into the empty 29.97 timeline - do not drag and drop, you'll get an error message.
3] Nest all the clips in the 29.97 sequence
4] Drop the tc reader filter over the nest

Keep in mind that FCP does not produce a 29.97 sequence with the correct 3:2 cadence. You'll get AA BB CC DD DD, not AA BB BC CD DD.

If you want AA BB BC CD DD, buy Natress Standards Converter for $100 - works great.

By the way - why are you making 29.97 outputs? I've done 5 features on FCP and all the post departments are now working 23.98 - it's so much better.

I have a movie that was transfered from 35mm to 23.98 fps DVCAM. I captured it into FCP5 and I'm working with it in the timeline. When I'm done, is it doing to be still 23.98 ? What happens when I go to compress it for DVD SP? Will it be automatically converted to 29.97 ?

NO, it will stay 23.98. It is when you try to dump it back out to tape that it needs to be 29.97...if it is DV tape. HD runs at 23.98 on some formats.

Your DVCAM tapes are 29.97, not 23.98. If you capture through a capture card, they will be 23.98 on FCP. Or if you use Cinema Tools to reverse telecine, they will be 23.98.

But on DVCAM tape, it is 29.97.

As far as DVD Studio Pro, use the automatic setting - it will make a progressive frame DVD which will play at 24 fps in progressive scan DVD players and play as 29.97 in older DVD sets.

Hi Shannon,

You got lots of responses, it looks like Mitch is pretty much the guru on this subject. However, it doesn't look like your question was answered--probably because you didn't make it clear what you wanted to do with the 29.97 - tape? QuickTime movie? project?

> I'm working on a feature in FCP 5 and am trying to take it from
> a 23.98 frame rate and bring it to 29.97 with TC burnins as
> well as feet and frames. What is the easiest way to do this,
> and best?

Easiest and best are different in this case. Easiest would be to simply make an output using FCP's 3:2 insertion. If you run a video composite signal through a Horita FW-50, you can make timecode/feet-frame burn-ins on the fly. According to the information on [www.horita.com] :

"The FW-50 reads SMPTE LTC and translates it into equivalent film foot and frame counts. It then keys this information into a video overlay display of both the SMPTE time code and the film foot/frame values."

Making video dubs with burn-ins is common in film production and if you call around you should be able to find a facility that can do it for you.

If you go this route, your tape will probably be close enough for most uses but it won't be 100% accurate.

> I have been told to do it through after effects, but there has
> got to be a way in FCP. I have tried just about everything,
> and have read through many of the posts from people who are
> having similar issues.

Last time I checked, you still can't do it properly from FCP. There should be a way to make the feet-frame generator work with the 23.98 while the timecode generator converts 23.98 to 29.97 and create a properly 3:2 interlaced output (with A frames on 0's and 5's timecode frames) -- but it doesn't seem to a part of the FCP tool set.

The long way, and still the best in my opinion, is to add the feet-frame burn-in on the 23.98 project (I nest the sequence and then add the TC-generator) and output a 23.98 QuickTime movie. The next step is to convert this 23.98 movie to 29.97 adding the 3:2 interlace. Mitch suggests using Natress Standards Converter, I haven't tried that but have used After Effects many times. Once you have created a 29.97 QuickTime Movie, go back to FCP, put it on a 29.97 timeline and once again use the TC-generator to add the SMPTE timecode burn-in.

It is a lot of work, takes loads of time and gigs of drive space to do this, but sometimes there is just no way around it--you need a videotape with feet-frame and timecode window burns for the Foley stage, ADR, sound editing and mixing and...well you get the picture. This is one area where Avid still beats FCP, hopefully Apple will fix this in future releases.

--Dan

Dan - you can actually put the 35 mm footage counter on a 23.98 nested timeline, copy and paste the 23.98 nest into a 29.97 sequence, drop in a 29.97 time code burn (as well as Natress standards converter) and then export.

The advantage is you only have to export once.

With all that said, I have not had to generate a 29.97 output for anyone in the last 3 films. All the sound editors, composers, mixing stages, ADR studios love the 23.98 QT files. They all balk at first because they think it won't work, but then they see how great it is and love it. No more mixed film/video frames.

The absurdity of making a 29.97 video output is that most editors and facilities take that tape and then recapture it digitally. So they have a horrible looking digiital file running at 29.97 instead of a lovely looking FCP output at 23.98.

Alright!!
Thanks for all your help-and I think that most of my questions have been answered, but I need some clarification.

Without a big budget to buy anything, I think I'll have to stick with the FCP way-nesting sequences with feet and frame generator (should I use the generator or the reader?) and then export that as a 29.97 project.

So, Dan-how is it that you do the export? I am sure it is something simple, but I keep trying to export the 29.97 sequence etc and I can never tell if everything looks correct. Does FCP do the work without the Nattress Standards Converter, or is that, or something similar, what I'll need to do the correct, or at least workable, 3:2 insertion?

I am really just preparing myself in case this situation happens-the last film I worked on we used FCP and did all of this in After Effects, but as I said, we can't really afford that on this project.

thanks-and Dan-I just saw Day without a Mexican two nights ago...and recognized your name-nice job. Thanks for the help-

If you play a 23.98 sequence out through firewire, FCP does the correct 3:2 pulldown - AA BB BC CD DD. So you can record to NTSC 29.97 tape correctly. (You need a fast enough CPU - laptops and single processor G4's are not fast enough.)

But if you want to export a 23.98 sequence as 29.97 QT movie, you have to either use Export Using QT Conversion or drop the 23.98 sequence into a 29.97 timeline and Export Quicktime Movie. Doing it this way DOES NOT export a correct 3:2 pulldown. You will wind up with AA BB CC DD DD.

Use Natress Film Standards Converter Filter for QT export for the correct 3:2 pulldown - AA BB BC CD DD.

Either way - you are in sync. It's just that with Natress, your output looks better. You get the correct interleave as opposed to every 4th frame repeated twice.

Or just go 23.98 QT export. It's the same speed as 29.97 and there are no mixed film frames.